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#430453 - 10/14/10 03:42 AM Re: All Martial Arts a Fraud? [Re: Stormdragon]
matt_mcg Offline

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 113
Tek9: Actually, when sparring in the class they tended to work at fairly close range and it was a 'short hand' style. There just seemed to be a blind-spot about what other arts/styles actually do. 'Boxing' techniques were really a poor caricature of what boxers or kickboxers would do.

Stormdragon: Yeah, although there are, of course, some kicks that work quite well at punching range or closer.

#430454 - 10/14/10 04:13 AM Re: All Martial Arts a Fraud? [Re: matt_mcg]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Definitely true, there are exceptions. Same with punches and kicking range (i.e. the superman punch).
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon:,

#430493 - 10/17/10 07:58 AM Re: All Martial Arts a Fraud? [Re: Cord]
JKogas Offline

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Cord
I too disagree about the distinction between longevity between MMA and TMA.

MMA is simply a selection of TMA techniques that have been tried and tested under pressure of fully resisting oponents, and taught in synergy to give an artist options in all ranges of combat. Its that simple.

Quite often you will hear the rationale that very experienced TMAists over decades of training, first learn everything in their system, then spend their training distilling that system into the purity of what works for them. It is almost a deconstruction where they come to the emlightenment of the power of the truth in the 'basics'.

All MMA does is streamline that process by cutting away the flab and teaching people to rely on solid basics from day one, and teaching them to function when under genuine pressure of a real oponent.

If anything, its closer to the roots of TMA than the hundreds of layers of codified complications that came about in the centuries of peace-time tinkering with the arts.

I'm late to the party folks, but this was very well-put by Cord (as always)! While risking that I may be repeating what someone else has already offered, I'd like to add that MMA training is perfect for the development of tested technique against resistance.

However I do see a few minor problems with taking the MMA approach for self-preservation.

1) Quality of coaching and knuckle-dragging partners who have little regard for your health.

2) People who are unsavory characters. They'll let ANYONE into many of these gyms. You are who you train with.

3) Lack of strategic training. MMA strategy of always moving forward, always seeking clinch or ground, is NOT always the most intelligent path.

What is needed is a tweaking of the TMA and/or Combatives training processes to make them more athletic and resistive. Their strategies are often more relevant to SD. The training methods are sometimes lacking.

Different situations call for different strategies. If you're don't allow for weapons, more than one attacker, or the use of "foul zone" attacks, you're short-changing yourself (IMO).

In other words, a meeting in the middle between TMA and MMA is needed.

#430495 - 10/17/10 10:02 AM Re: All Martial Arts a Fraud? [Re: JKogas]
Kathryn Offline

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Washington, DC
I took my first jodo class yesterday, which is a clan art that has become Japan's traditional policing art. It is also known as a difficult art technically. This art has everything that I look for in my training, because even though it uses ancient weapons, it really focuses on universal skills like command prescence. I truly believe that it does not matter what art you get your technical skills from, if you aren't learning about the psychology of opponent pressure or how to calmly diffuse a confrontation, you aren't learning what will enable your survival in the world.
Be nice, until it's time to not be nice.

#431830 - 03/27/11 09:22 PM Re: All Martial Arts a Fraud? [Re: Jokatech]
fileboy2002 Offline

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Chicago, IL
Your crazy friend is right. Unless you practice under extremely realistic conditions, you may not learn much in the way of practical self-defense. A good rule of thumbs is that if you ever have to ask, "I wonder if technique X would work in real life?", it probably won't.

But what your friend is missing is that that type of hardcore training has a very limited audience. Yes, MMA is growing rapidly among the young and fit (particularly males). However, that type of training hold little appeal to the very young, the middle aged--pretty much anyone who doesn't see themselves becoming a professional fighter. Yet, those people can benefit in a lot of way from martial arts training.

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