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#430130 - 09/24/10 07:23 PM Re: Pulse Rates [Re: Cord]
Kathryn Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Washington, DC
Dereck == you may want to ask about having your vitamin D status checked if it hasn't already.
_________________________
Be nice, until it's time to not be nice.

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#430137 - 09/25/10 06:13 AM Re: Pulse Rates [Re: Cord]
Shi Ronglang Offline
石榮狼
Member

Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 91
Loc: Samarobriva, Gallia
Originally Posted By: Cord
Breathing is the intake of air in to the lungs, where gaseous exchage occurs via the alveoli. [...] Believe what you want, but [sucking in more air by consciously using the muscles of your] belly [when] breathing does not give you a significantly higher volume of oxygenated blood.

But wouldn't sucking in more air (through conscious use of the belly or otherwise) dilatate the alveoli further, thus increasing the exchange surface and/or facilitating the said exchange by stretching the alveoli walls thinner?

What you say makes sense and you definitely know your stuff, but still I find it hard to believe that deeper breathing (breathing rates being equal) doesn't lead to a higher supply of oxygen...
A hidden child playing hide-and-seek will see his breathing rate increase as the seeker passes him by (strictly 'mental' stress condition, ready for a 'fight-or-flight' situation but not quite there yet), while someone whose body actually has a clear, physiological, immediate need for more oxygen, like an olympic sprinter for instance (actual physical stress conditions) will not only see his breathing rate but also his breathing 'depth' increase. The first one's breathing is fast but shallow and silent, while the second's is fast, powerful and noisy.
What would be the point of that, physiologically speaking, if increased breathing-depth doesn't provide the body with more oxygen?
_________________________
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#430138 - 09/25/10 08:46 AM Re: Pulse Rates [Re: Shi Ronglang]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: Shi Ronglang
Originally Posted By: Cord
Breathing is the intake of air in to the lungs, where gaseous exchage occurs via the alveoli. [...] Believe what you want, but [sucking in more air by consciously using the muscles of your] belly [when] breathing does not give you a significantly higher volume of oxygenated blood.

But wouldn't sucking in more air (through conscious use of the belly or otherwise) dilatate the alveoli further, thus increasing the exchange surface and/or facilitating the said exchange by stretching the alveoli walls thinner?


Thats not how it works. The best way to think of alveoli is like tiny clusters of blackberries - thats kind of what they look like, all lumpy. This allows them to have a greater surface area. The lungs, if completely stretched out, have the same surface area as a tennis court, and that is due to the space saving structure of the alveoli. The air passes around the alveoli, which have membranes so thin, that they absorb the properties in the air and these go straight to the blood stream.

lung capacity, lung power, and lung efficiency, are seperate qualities, with seperate measurable tests. Someone with lung damage from smoke can breath as deep as they like, it will not change the damage to the alveoli, nor the resultant limitation in lung efficiency. I have also seen many with very strong peak flow readings fail badly on Vo2 max testing.

Quote:
What you say makes sense and you definitely know your stuff, but still I find it hard to believe that deeper breathing (breathing rates being equal) doesn't lead to a higher supply of oxygen...


'deep' is a relative term - again, a top level free diver, or opera tenor still doesnt use much over 1/3rd of the lungs potential expansion ability. So sure, increased volume of respiration will process more oxygen- its why you get 'out of breath' from exertion, but oxygen debt recovery difference from slower consciously deeper breathing, and more rapid natural breathing is swings and roundabouts situation.

Quote:
A hidden child playing hide-and-seek will see his breathing rate increase as the seeker passes him by (strictly 'mental' stress condition, ready for a 'fight-or-flight' situation but not quite there yet),


But why? This is the crux of the argument. That breathing increase, the pulse increase, the adrenaline 'jolt' as you say are all pre-emptive physiological changes. They prepare for exertion, they are not stimulated by exertion. As such, in this prepared state, deep breathing is not 'paying back' an oxygen debt - the blood is already highly oxygenated, and no exertion has occurred. The deep breathing is a message from one element of the emergency system to all others, that the threat is not real, or is over - ever heard the phrase 'to breath a sigh of relief'? Thats why.

Quote:
while someone whose body actually has a clear, physiological, immediate need for more oxygen, like an olympic sprinter for instance (actual physical stress conditions) will not only see his breathing rate but also his breathing 'depth' increase.


Probably a bad example, as sprinters breath very shallow, as their exertion is anaerobic and brief. Though this is a good time to introduce the impracticalities of 'belly breathing' to situations of gross motor function. A sprinter relies on a stable core through which to ensure that the least amount of power dissipates through yielding body mechanics. To truly 'belly breath' the abdominals must relax beyond a point where they can effectively stabilise dynamic physical movement. This is why traditional meditation takes place in a static position.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#430175 - 09/27/10 09:41 AM Re: Pulse Rates [Re: Cord]
duanew Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 326
Loc: MN
I thought the discussion was about oxygen not urine. I disagree with you. If you choose to think of that as butting heads I suggest you breath deeply and relax. Hope you had a great weekend.

Duane

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#430190 - 09/27/10 08:58 PM Re: Pulse Rates [Re: duanew]
Kathryn Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Washington, DC
At any rate, if you want to breathe more deeply and efficiency, practice exhaling more completely. It kicks in your hypoxic drive to assist in the inhale.
_________________________
Be nice, until it's time to not be nice.

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#433901 - 09/29/11 06:07 PM Re: Pulse Rates [Re: Kathryn]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Just looking back at this thread. Currently finding my job has moved to the most stress I have ever had and is getting worse. Have looked for way to alleviate this even discussing with my place of work that won't do anything even though they agree there are problems. In fact they want me to take on more roles that will increase my stress levels; not sure I am up for this and may be detrimental to my health. And sadly it is not something I can say no to.

I talked earlier about tightness in my chest; can't remember if I ever discussed what was found out. I can't remember the terminology but the valve that I have that releases acid is gone and when stressed it dumps too much and than this gives me the tightness; had nothing to do with my heart; phew. On medication for this that has helped up until this point where my stress levels are off the chart; which means my blood pressure is up there to.

My pulse rate is still very decent with typing right now and checking it is 52 bpm. Suspect when I go home my BP will be 150-160/80. Got to alleviate this stress to get back to normal rates. Life other than work is good; so when at rest there is no stress thankfully.

EDIT: IT is called a Hiatal Hernia and it is the diaphragm that is gone.


Edited by Dereck (09/29/11 06:21 PM)
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