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#429851 - 09/09/10 04:33 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: Kimo2007]
bcihak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
I guess it wouldn't be too hard to guess that I whole heartedly support Arizona. The law made sense, did not discriminate against people from mexico and gave arizona law enforcement a tool to help them against people breaking the law. Is it a surprise that people who want to benefit from virtual slave labor from mexican immigrants oppose the law? For the sake of clarity, why don't we start at what you think was actually wrong with the Arizona law, for those who oppose it.

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#429852 - 09/09/10 04:35 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: Stormdragon]
bcihak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
Wow, I just checked the numbers on who is reading our thread. That is a lot. For a short period of time.

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#429853 - 09/09/10 04:45 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: bcihak]
bcihak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
Kimo do you really think that mosque had anything to do with outreach? Really? As far as the nut burning the Qur'an, the liberal media love to show this because it reinforces their view that all Americans, except for people like them, are irrational islamaphobes, and it helps them defend their position on the New York Mosque. There is a good article on the nut at Breitbart.com's Bigjournalism thread. He explains why the media is covering this guy when he isn't even big enough to be the fringe of the fringe.


Edited by bcihak (09/09/10 04:50 PM)

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#429854 - 09/09/10 04:54 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: bcihak]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Love that law Arizona passed (or tried to). I can't believe that Federal judge actually blocked the useful parts. what the hell is the point of having immigration laws if you can't enforce them? Yeah that makes sense. And how do people (luckily few) come to the conclusion that 16 million illegal immgirants, most of whom speak zero english, are a good thing? Where do they think the hispanic gang culture came from? Smuggling of illegals is big business for a lot of Mexican mob members and business for a lto of the cartels.

How is it fair they can just walk over and be allowed to stay with no one trying to get them out when everyone else has to earn their right to be Americans? And than we're criticised for actually, you know, enforcing our immigration laws when most countries have even stricter laws. Personally, I don't give a rats a$$ about them if they aren't willing to fight to get here. And the Mexican government is only too happy to get rid of them. Congratulations, instead of trying to build up your country you just try to send as many of your bad apples here as possible. wonderful. It's not all racism either, Mexico just happens to be where 95% or more of the illegals come from, obviously that makes them all Mexicans. They could be Russians, I still would hate it. Come to America and learn about our society and learn English. Should americans learn other languages? Sure but why should we be forced to learn that one language because so many people jump over here and only speak it? I took 4 years of Spanish, I hated it, I'd rather learn German, but no Spanish is now the only useful language here besides English so we're forced to learn that one. If I go to another country I try to pick up as much as I can of the language spoken by the majority. Kind of makes sense. You go to Mexico or some other Spanish speaking country do you tell them they're wrogn for not speaking your language? No you learn Spanish. Duh. Common sense.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#429855 - 09/09/10 04:56 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: Stormdragon]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I think the mods can see we won't resort to "f- you you stupid f-er you're full of F" lol
Plus there's only 4 of us to watch. You guys must be extremely confused about where I fall in the political spectrum, one moment I sound like a flaming right lunatic and the next I'm an atheist who respects Muslims. I even support gay marriage. PRetty odd combination of views eh?


Edited by Stormdragon (09/09/10 04:58 PM)
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#429859 - 09/09/10 05:52 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: Stormdragon]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Finally a good end is in sight to this crap with the burning Korans and the Mospue: http://www.mail.com/Article.aspx/politic...urning?pageid=1

At last people are thinking and being reasonable.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#429863 - 09/09/10 07:15 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: bcihak]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:
The law made sense


Sure, I mean unless you spent 10 seconds in law school. Oh and while I can understand it explicitly did not discriminate against people from Mexico, exactly how many illegals from any country other than Mexico, do you think are in Arizona? Give me a number or a percentage? C'mon on man you know damn well who the target was, don't lie to me or anybody else.

I won't BS you and pretend that Mexican's aren't entering the country illegally OK, we all know they are, so let's not pretend it's not happening fair enough? How about we talk about SB1070?

First, you support Arizona. I get that. It's what the politicians counted on. But if you understand anything about international law, you understand it's a federal issue, it's a federal jurisdiction. Making most of SB1070 illegal right out of the gate, which is why it was gutted by the judge and challenged by the feds. Not because they have some agenda, because that is their job and they are required to do so. Proven right because they won.

Point 2, local law enforcement already had a working agreement with the feds to turn over suspected illegals picked up for crimes. If you got arrested for a crime, and couldn't produce legal ID, guess what? You were vetted for legal status already. So what did SB1070 really do?

Point 3. Many families left the state of AZ because they had 1-5 members who were illegal. The fear was they might be arrested and shipped back to Mexico and away from their family. Result, rents are down, commerce is down, schools are down by 28% in attendance. I could go on.

These families have moved to California, Nevada, New Mexico and other states where the laws are less aggressive toward legal status. For every illegal AZ has removed, they have lost 8-10 legal residents. The tax base and general revenue lose has been devastating to the local economy.

Point 4.

The illegals come and have come for 90 years, because the economy has asked them too come. Passing a law that singles out the poorest people in the equation and assumes the richest people who pay them for their cheap labor bare no responsibility...is just BS. We have 12 million illegal jobs, and we offer 500,000 visas to fill them. That creates a huge economic vacuum sucking these people up into our country, then we kick them in the face and call them criminals for the effort.

The fact is most Mexicans who come here to work, do just that, come here to work. Have been for generations and the US keeps changing the rules as political winds change.

The BS that they don't try and learn English is beyond stupid.

Most first generation immigrants never get beyond broken English, most never let their kids speak their mother tongue, because of the prejudiced against speaking anything other than English in this country.

SB1070 is a great law for those that think that economic failure is cool, who needs capitalism right?
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#429864 - 09/09/10 10:21 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: Kimo2007]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
BS that they don't try to learn English? BS my as we coddle them too much for them to actually bother to try and learn English and it makes problems. I worked a year i na store where every other customer spoke zero English. Created more problems than I really wanted to deal with. I tried learning Spanish for 4 years and still had trouble. It's BS if you have no actual real-world experience with that sort of thing. BS in theory maybe. Not BS in the real world.

But alright I'll go move to Mexico and tell them they have to put everything in English and learn English and I have no reason to learn Spanish and you'll call them racists and bigots if they don't right? You'll back me up in that?

And like you said, most illegals in say Arizona are Mexican, duh, because Mexico is the closest country and it's a poor country so they all want to come here. Obviously the illegals are Mexicans. The target is illegal immigrants and they happen to be Mexican because that's where all of the illegal immigrants come from. You call it racism, I call it lack of choice. Who the hell else are we supposed to include in that crack down on illegal immigration? It's not liek there's anything else so obviously they're all Mexicans. You have no grounds to call peopel racists for that unless somehow you get in their heads or they flat out say it.

I'll concede to your point on jursidiction.
As far as the damage done to the Airzona economy, show me your sources with numbers I can see for myself.
And I have to ask you, what about all the damage done to the economy by the huge number of illegals getting health care off our tax dollars ? We're talking billions of dollars. Pay your taxes because 16 million illegal immigrants depend on you.
Then there is the high number of vehicle accidents involving illegals who have no car insurance (I know people hwo have actually had that happen).

Are they illegal or not? Because half the time we treat it like they are, hal'f the time we don't (by giving them rights only really meant for citizens). I'd be happier if we at least eliminated our immigration laws and quit pretending like we actually give a sh#t who comes here and how. It's dishonesty.

We wouldn't NEED 15 million illegals to keep our economy afloat if we hadn't let it get this far out of controlto the point where now our economy is based on it. And I'm not just blaming them I'm blaming the jacka$$ business owners who encourage it. And this is where excessive taxes come in, you cause business to go to hiring illegals and outsourcing for nothing, taking jobs from Americans which is partly where are economic troubles come from. The idea that we just don't want to do those jobs is BS, plain BS. You have any idea how many people I know who do ANY work at all and can't because of that? there's no jobs available because guess who gets them?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#429865 - 09/09/10 10:27 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: Stormdragon]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
we'll probably make even less progress debating this topic.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#429874 - 09/10/10 12:15 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: Stormdragon]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
We are not going make any progress, but the economic numbers are out there if you look. The numbers of empty apartments, the businesses that serve the Latino community are way down, sure some of them serve illegals but the vast % is legal.

The economic impacts are also way over stated depending on your Political Stand, figures lie and liars figure. Plus, the jobs they do. I cold write a book on that. In fact I work on a documentary that honored a healthcare worker who went into migrant worker camps to administer basic care. See, the other side of the story is more of the workers stay in the shadow because they are scared of deportation so they don't get basic care. By the time they hit the ER, often it's because they let minor things fester.

As for the work, trust me getting Americans to do it has been a problem for generations. Not all the jobs it's not a cut and dry thing, but the vast majority hard low income hard labor jobs. Keeping them filled with hard working Americans, especially in decent economy is very very difficult.

Go online and look for interviews. You'll find dozens that talk about programs where the bosses will say most Americans don't make it to lunch before they walk off. Work is too hard.

So, report came out which is huge egg on SB1070's face. The big contention was that Government wasn't enforcing the law. Well, turns out they were. Numbers are way down, enforcement is way up (all before 1070). What is needed, is reform. Guest worker program, enforcement against the real criminals and drug runners etc. Fair and reasonable paths to citizenship.

Not a fence and bunch of yahoo's with guns...but whatever make you feel good I guess. Funny how whenever the economy get's rough the immigrants get kicked around, then when things get better, we eat our cheap lettuce and forget all about it for a while?
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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