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#429837 - 09/09/10 09:12 AM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: Stormdragon]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Stormy -

Hate to be pedantic here, but Kimo is correct - a mosque is not the same thing as a prayer room, anymore than a chapel is considered a church.
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#429838 - 09/09/10 11:11 AM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: MattJ]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:
but Kimo is correct


I think we'd be better off, if we all just listed to Matt grin
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#429839 - 09/09/10 11:34 AM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: Kimo2007]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Psh semantics. laugh Gotta give me credit for consistency, I don't single out one religion.
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#429840 - 09/09/10 11:42 AM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: Stormdragon]
bcihak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
Please, let's not be silly. We three jolly guys agree that the mosque has the right to be built. However, let's not pretend, the Rauf guy wants to build the mosque there as a statement of victory. That is why it was initially refered to as the Cordoba mosque, once it is built it will be a magnet for the radicals of the faith. There are apparently over 100 mosques already in the city so intolerance is not, not an issue. The funding of the mosque is being held in secret, the builder of the mosque has said some radical things that make his motives suspect. It technically is attached to ground zero because some of the air craft landed there. There is also another mosque, which has been there longer, even closer to the site. Intolerance is not the issue, arrogance of the mosque builder is. Much like the Carmalite sisters who wanted to build near the death camp, a decent religous person would move the mosque. Pleas, let's be real.

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#429841 - 09/09/10 12:00 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: bcihak]
bcihak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
Oh, I was mistaken, the nut who is going to burn the Koran's doesn't have 50 followers, he only has less than 24. This goes to my original post, so long ago. The main stream media, in its eagerness to portray americans, especially christian, southern americans as intolerant islamophobes has pumped up a story that should never have been given national air time. He has less than 24 people and they have made this into an international story and used it to the possible endangerment of Americans around the world. Every major American religous leader of almost every faith has said he is doing the wrong thing and asked him to stop. Imagine if he was an environmentalist who was going to burn a pile of bibles. How different would the story be?

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#429842 - 09/09/10 12:21 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: bcihak]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Well, this is certainly uncomfortable. I actually agree with bcihak. Moderate muslims should recognize the backlash this is causing in NY, and move the center somewhere else.

I also wonder why the news stations are giving so much air time to that nut in FL and his few followers. Stop putting him on TV and the story will go away.
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#429843 - 09/09/10 12:51 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: MattJ]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:
Moderate muslims should recognize the backlash this is causing in NY, and move the center somewhere else.


They are, many have come out and said that very thing. All the commotion is working against the very unity they were seeking in the first place.

The media really is fan the flames of the book burning wack job, thats what they do and it's sad.
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#429844 - 09/09/10 01:02 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: MattJ]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:
Well, this is certainly uncomfortable. I actually agree with bcihak.


Matt....you should have stuck with your first Instinct.
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#429847 - 09/09/10 02:03 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: bcihak]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Originally Posted By: bcihak
Please, let's not be silly. We three jolly guys agree that the mosque has the right to be built. However, let's not pretend, the Rauf guy wants to build the mosque there as a statement of victory. That is why it was initially refered to as the Cordoba mosque, once it is built it will be a magnet for the radicals of the faith. There are apparently over 100 mosques already in the city so intolerance is not, not an issue. The funding of the mosque is being held in secret, the builder of the mosque has said some radical things that make his motives suspect. It technically is attached to ground zero because some of the air craft landed there. There is also another mosque, which has been there longer, even closer to the site. Intolerance is not the issue, arrogance of the mosque builder is. Much like the Carmalite sisters who wanted to build near the death camp, a decent religous person would move the mosque. Pleas, let's be real.


Easily true, but we can't use that as a reason not to put it there without hard evidence. And I think there is reason enough anyway (i.e. the number of peopel who're against it and the fact it's Muslim only which does nothing for making peace between religions or cultures). But that would make sense and some of those Muslims who're against putting it there may know something. There are a lot of radical Muslim fundamentalsits who like to pull that kind of thing.

That's another thing, considering that some Muslims don't even think it should go up, why the hell is it an invalid opinion that we shouldn't put it up? Oh wait I know because anyone can do anythign they want in the name of religion. Awesome.
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Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#429848 - 09/09/10 02:35 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: Stormdragon]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:
That's another thing, considering that some Muslims don't even think it should go up, why the hell is it an invalid opinion that we shouldn't put it up?


The only valid opinion I've heard that it shouldn't go up, is that things have gone so far in the wrong direction that the original mission of outreach has now been lost.

I disagree with that in principle, I think you cannot let prejudice win, you must stand up to it. Maybe that's not practical, but leadership is tough and this to me requires it. But it's not my land so as long as it's left up to the people who own it and they make the choice and it's not forced upon them then whatever they decide is fine I guess.

I do hope the builders of the (insert whatever word) find a way to bring their community together on this. I'm sure there is a way if they try, and they certainly seem willing too. I do find it promising that for the most part they have stayed out of the fray. I think Newt Gingrich embarrassed himself. For a smart guy he said some pretty dumb things. Keith Olbermann did a nice piece on the issue factually, if he could have left the angry man routine and not used Edward R Murrow's sign off at the end. I do think Kieth is a bit of a pudding head, but if you can put that to the side for a minute, this is a decent report.

http://www.towleroad.com/2010/08/watch-keith-olbermann-on-the-ground-zero-mosque.html

So, did anyone enjoy Jan Brewer Governor of AZ and her 16 second freeze frame?? That was special. I think one of staffers was supposed to pull the string on her back, guess they forgot...ooops.

Actually, since we are never going to get anywhere on NYC, and the Mods aren't shutting us down (bored I guess? Hey are we the fat girl in spandex at the bar?)

I figured we could switch up to SB1070. A really bad piece of legislation for Arizona. I knew it would pass when it first came out, but I could also see all the problems it would cause and now here we are a few months down the road and viola, I'm either a Pychic, genius or as Matt likes to say, right grin
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