FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 30 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
BUJU, Pilsungkarate, ALF, old1, Leonar
22928 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Ronin1966 3
GojuRyuboy13 2
futsaowingchun 2
ergees 2
cxt 1
October
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
Yesterday at 08:28 AM
Judo 2014 World Championships Juniors: The Gallery
by ergees
10/25/14 04:53 PM
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
09/25/14 08:50 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by Leo_E_49
01/24/12 02:58 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by
05/13/07 08:02 AM
Recent Posts
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
Yesterday at 10:01 PM
I spy kata bunkai..
by GojuRyuboy13
Yesterday at 08:28 AM
Judo 2014 World Championships Juniors: The Gallery
by ergees
10/25/14 04:53 PM
Living a full life violence free...
by GojuRyuboy13
10/22/14 07:20 AM
The Classic Pak Sao drill
by futsaowingchun
10/20/14 10:32 AM
Leo's Judo Journal
by swordy
10/11/14 09:21 AM
wing chun kicks and knees
by futsaowingchun
10/09/14 12:55 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ronin1966
10/08/14 09:22 PM
2014 European Championships Juniors: the Gallery
by ergees
10/05/14 10:56 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by AndyLA
10/04/14 10:20 AM
Forum Stats
22928 Members
36 Forums
35584 Topics
432513 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#429812 - 09/08/10 05:26 PM Fighting Experience
Jokatech Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/09/07
Posts: 18
I have an issue with my teacher that is also an issue that seems to exist in the Martial Arts world itself. When I met him, I had already studied for years in Wing Tsun, Boxing, and Wrestling. I had competed as a wrestler. Yet, yesterday, we were discussing tournaments that he hosts and attends where Black belts, green belts, etc in different styles meet. He himself is a black belt is a few similar Japanese styles. I'm more like a MMA guy. I've studied for a long time is different styles, but haven't recieved the acollades that he has. He tells me that with what he's taught me, I have no business competing yet or even getting in a fight with anyone. It's as if he gives a punk on the street as good a chance as me in a fight.(btw, he has trained me for over 2 years, so this brings into question if I'm wasting my time having gotten nowhere by his estimation with the dozens of techniques that I've polished with him) I find that very disrespectful, and remind him, that in a fight I'd use techniques that I've known before meeting him, not new ones we are going over. I've noticed that this is why MMA came into existance. So many decorated fighter think you have to devote you life to a one-dimensional style to be a good fighter. Yet, these same clowns step into the octagon and get destroyed by a MMA guy who has built a solid foundation in several styles and aspects of fighting over a much shorter period. I really don't think you have absord so much time before being adequately able to defend yourself. Alot of the Japanese styles are built to defend against the style itself. All styles have their holes, which is why Bruce Lee and MMA have had such success by taking the good and moving on. I just wanted to get other martial artists' opinions on this topic.


Edited by Jokatech (09/08/10 05:29 PM)
_________________________
I never believed in the classical retreat, like the fake never knew technique.

Top
#429818 - 09/08/10 08:10 PM Re: Fighting Experience [Re: Jokatech]
GungFuMang Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/09
Posts: 50
Sounds like a typical conservative MA reply from your sensei.

Maybe by saying that you have no business using the techniques he taught you, as you don't know them well enough yet.

Also if he is teaching traditional styles, traditional MA is built around self defense with stylistic elements, which in short is do 1,2 maybe 3 techniques to get your opponent down, then move on. Competition fighting or MMA is about going in the octagon, expecting to be bashed about for a while, not winning fights with a clean 1-2, then getting out of danger.

Scientific progression of traditional MA into modern competition fighting, has its own purpose, wi-shu has another, karate has another even they are all martial arts and you should learn aspects of each for your own journey.

I think you need to have more patience, work the techniques he has taught you into your arsenal, but don't interpret them in your own way, do them as they are meant to be done. Only perfect practice is perfect.

Top
#429834 - 09/09/10 05:23 AM Re: Fighting Experience [Re: GungFuMang]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
It depends on the context the "fighting" you refer to. Does your teacher mean you aren't ready to fight "on da street!!" or does your teacher mean you aren't ready for competition fighting?

If it is the former, how can your teacher know if you haven't demonstrated the full range of your fighting skill. As you say, it seems to be a traditional Japanese martial arts class you attend. As such, when are you ever going to get to demonstrate your wrestling skill or Wing Chun?

If it is the latter, your teacher might think you aren't at the level yet to enter competition. As you say yourself, this teacher is teaching a very specific form of fighting in line with the traditional systems he has studied. The competition of such styles also have very specific rules, and your previous training might not help you much in those competitions. A person may excel at Greco-Roman Wrestling, but if you put them in a Shotokan Karate kumite competition, they might not fair that well due to the specific rules of Shotokan Karate. The reverse is also true.

To be honest it sounds like you are frustrated with the current style you are studying. I don't think there is anything wrong with traditional martial arts. As long as a person knows what they are doing and enjoy it, then let them go to it. If your coach has dismissed your fighting ability without seeing it, well I could understand if a person took offence at that.

All that said, if a person would rather do MMA or thinks MMA is "better" than traditional systems, then I would tell that person to go to an MMA class. They likely aren't going to get what they want at a Wado Ryu class or a Shotokan class or an Aikido class. Otherwise it's like going to a Teetotalers house then complaining they don't have any booze in the fridge!
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

Top
#429845 - 09/09/10 01:25 PM Re: Fighting Experience [Re: Prizewriter]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
What are you doing at a school teaching Japanese MA considering your MA itnerests? You should go to an mma or kickboxing gym.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
#429850 - 09/09/10 04:08 PM Re: Fighting Experience [Re: Stormdragon]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Well, I'm going to go out on a limb here and try and see where he is coming from, and relate it back to my own experience.

My guess is, as a blackbelt TMA stylist he might see your skills as sloppy or lacking refinement. Where, as an MMA stylist would think, refinement is cute and all, I'll remember that when I'm caving your skull in.

It's the classical clash of ideas between the training methodologies and they both have value, it's really about finding a balance. There is this great story about Bruce Lee, I think it might be on video in fact, where a Chinese Master gets into a horse stance and challenges him to try and knock him down. Well, Bruce Lee punched him in the face and over he goes, not what the Master meant but you see the point.

So, you are probably not ready to fight in the tournaments your instructor is talking about. They probably have rule sets tailored for skill sets you have not developed. Imagine James Toney and Randy Couture if that had been a boxing match. Randy's a tough guy but he's not boxing with Toney. Toney's a tuff guy but he's no match for Randy in the cage.

So, what this instructor is doing IMO, is controlling the fight. He is setting the training, he is judging your skills right? I doubt it's ever the other way around. This stuff happens from the neck up. You probably never really spar in your style with him, probably only in his way, and against his students, or if against him after you are winded a bit? Just wondering.

Storm is probably right, unless you have a personal desire to learn an art he is known for, you would be better off in an MMA gym. That's where I work out there days, shorts T-shirts and nobody gets to kick me in the stomach when I get a promotion...when the hell did someone decide that was fun?
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

Top
#429857 - 09/09/10 05:12 PM Re: Fighting Experience [Re: Kimo2007]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
No point in a punch in the gut upon promotion in mma, we take enough hits as it is. laugh
I always liked getting those love taps for things. Felt like the real right of passage when I was a kid. They always did that in Kenpo.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
#429860 - 09/09/10 05:58 PM Re: Fighting Experience [Re: Stormdragon]
Jokatech Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/09/07
Posts: 18
I appreciate the style and what I've had the opportunity to learn, but I'm noticing that I don't really agree with the ideals in Japanese Martial Arts. In Kung fu styles where I originally came from, there are more open minded principles and a focus on defending against anything in the most efficient way. In Karate, Tae Kwon Do etc, I'm noticing that the practicioners can be very pig-headed and narrow-minded by nature. The style is tailored for itself and no other style is respected. I don't think that my teacher's style is for me actually and I'll be returning to Wing Tsun practice in the near future. Even when you hear him talk about other masters in different styles, it's as if they are a joke to him because they aren't a part of his discipline. That attitude disappoints me and is never found in Kung Fu or MMA. For instance, when I first met him and began training with him, during practice, I was told to throw punches so he could counter into a technique. I would lead jab or throw a right cross. He ridiculed me on these standard boxing punches claiming that it's the wrong way to punch. I boxed for 2 years before meeting him and know how to punch. In actuality, in boxing, Wing Tsun and many other styles, this is how you punch. Goju and other styles like it usually lead punch with the front foot which telegraphs the attack. So where you would have a right cross, they have as a standard a stepping right punch. He demands that I attack like this. In Kung Fu, you can punch however you want with whatever style and the techniques are solid enough that the counter is effective regardless. Only in Japanese styles do I notice this pig-headed approach where you have to fight them, "like them" in practice. This is a trend I've noticed with Japanese Martial Arts masters that I don't represent or agree with. These same dudes are shocked when they step out of their comfort zone where they get easy wins against their own style and get dropped by a MMA or Kung Fu man. lol


Edited by Jokatech (09/09/10 06:11 PM)
_________________________
I never believed in the classical retreat, like the fake never knew technique.

Top
#429861 - 09/09/10 06:06 PM Re: Fighting Experience [Re: Stormdragon]
Kathryn Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Washington, DC
Jokatech:

It may make you feel better to know that this may have nothing to do with your ability and everything to do with the traditional way of Japanese teachers. It is traditional to not praise the student in any way, the most positive thing you may hear is "yes, do it that way". When testing for some arts, you only hear back the negative feedback, and silence means you did it right.

There are several reasons for this approach. One is of course to help the student develop humility and self-control. Another reason is to protect the student, because praise can arouse jealousy from men and evil spirits.

So, I don't go to the dojo expecting to get 'atta girls' at every turn. It's just not the way.

Kathryn
_________________________
Be nice, until it's time to not be nice.

Top
#429862 - 09/09/10 06:31 PM Re: Fighting Experience [Re: Kathryn]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
That's why I left TKD and went to Kenpo and then moved and started mma. Neither was like that. In the form of Kenpo I did we rarely did those lead leg stepping punches. It was all hooks and crosses, sometimes jabs, and you did them in a way that was meant to actually get through the defenders technique and if the technique failed than they got a little tap (not hard but they would feel it). Of course mma is just hit the guy however works lol.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
#429871 - 09/10/10 08:15 AM Re: Fighting Experience [Re: Stormdragon]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
I trained for about 6 years in a very traditional Japanese art. So, from my experience I tend to disagree with some of the comments about Japanese styles must do it my way or the highway. When we sparred it was what worked. But when sensei was demonstrating a technique it was a certain way. IE front punch, step punch, whatever. I also think that in the beginning the basics help out tremendously. Yes, it can feel very repetitive doing 1000 step and punches. However, I think it teaches a very beneficial concept. That is the body working together.

Now, I don't train in a traditional art. But, i still have a strong foundation from those basics that were drilled into me. I am totally about what works and I don't think in a fight I would take a traditional stance with rear hand on hip and execute gyaku tsuki. (shrugs)

I very much agree with Kathryn. I learned humility when I first started in my previous karate school. I was a few months in and still a white belt when I entered a Tae Kwon Do tournament. To make a long story short, I scored a great point/technique on the guy and was bouncing around like a grasshopper. smile I then looked to my sensei for approval and he just said keep loose and showed no emotion.
_________________________
90 percent of good abs is your nutrition

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >






Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga