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#429760 - 09/06/10 04:33 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: bcihak]
bcihak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
Sanger and H.G. Wells were both progressives.

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#429766 - 09/06/10 07:57 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: bcihak]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
You do love your labels don't you:)

The problem with labels is they are meant attach larger concepts to an individual so you can create straw man arguments. It's like saying the scout leader is Gay. (and we all know what that means).

It reminds me of my buddy Bob. Bob sells cars. Bob could talk a nun into a 3 way with Donkey and convince her to pay for the cab ride. Doesn't mean people who sell cars are bad people, it just means Bob's moral compass is stuck on depraved.

That's what pops into my mind when you say so and so is a progressive, or a democrat or whatever. The Catholics have Nuns who care for lepers, and Priests who pork little boys.

Muslims aren't bad people, guys who fly planes into the world trade center are, and so are those people who choose to punish people who happen to look like the guys who did.

I can live with you as well my friend, and I am sure given the proper forum and enough time you are probably right. We might agree on quite a few things. I think most people would agree on 70-80% of most issues given enough personal contact. But too much money is made on keeping us at each others throats so that is not going to happen any time soon.

Are the Mods bored or what? Can't believe this has gone on this long..
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#429767 - 09/06/10 10:00 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: Kimo2007]
bcihak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
Me too. Cord tends to jump on these pretty quick.

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#429768 - 09/06/10 10:39 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: bcihak]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I liked that quote on free speech Kimo, where did you find it?

I agree you have to be really careful with labels, they do have a place, just like stereotypes have a place, but you have to be very careful not to get so stuck on them you're completely unopen to exceptions or just being wrong. Labels can be rough guidlines but they are not the gospel truth on the nature of anything or anyone.

When I vote I try to ignore what party people are in as much as possible (often that's impossible but you can avoid it soem of the time) and look at the peopel themselves. That label only tells you so much.

"But too much money is made on keeping us at each others throats so that is not going to happen any time soon." Unfortunetly very true, there is a lot of business in playing peopel into conflicts. That occurs on both the international as well as the national and local levels, which seems crazy but someone always gains from it.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#429770 - 09/06/10 11:15 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: Stormdragon]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:
I liked that quote on free speech Kimo, where did you find it?


It's from the movie "The American President" there is some great writing in that movie if you can put the liberal bias aside. ( I don't mean your distaste for it, I mean the movie has a liberal bias). There is a great rant about how the people are so thirsty for leadership they will drink sand by Michael J Fox, and there is another line where Michael Douglas calls out his rival for going on talk shows and calling his girl friend a whore...classic stuff.

There is a great scene with Louis Black, which I referenced earlier in this thread where he rants about news putting up a Holocaust denier against a respected historian and calling it a fair and balanced debate. Funny times when it takes comedians to cut through the farce of network news and point out the truth...at least to my eyes.

Labels are tough to avoid though, people gravitate to them as much as people slap them on others. It's a part if the imperfect system, I just like to avoid them whenever possible.

I have no label for myself yet. I'm not a liberal, I'm not a conservative. Though I share beliefs that would fit with both of those groups. I'm not gay but I love the theatre, I'm highly spiritual but very anti religion (not anti but anti the power religion holds over people and the harm it causes in terms of guilt and shame and worse). I'm pro business, and for limited government but for a strong regulatory body to oversee the rights of the people.

I think I need a George Carlin ruling for a label LOL!
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Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#429771 - 09/07/10 01:41 AM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: Kimo2007]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Thought i'd point out:

The democratic party has very different, very mild platform compared to European social democratic parties. I don't have any problems with those personally anyway, but the constant attempt by right wingers to compare the two is total BS, the average democrat here is pretty right wing by the standards of most European left parties.

AS far as Europe "seeing the light"..again there are people considered right wing by European standards that the right here would be shrieking "socialist" at, you can't compare them like that.

All the BS about "socialism" is coming from people who have no idea what the term means, and are using it harken back to the red scare for political purposes. Don't like a progressive? Call him a socialist, or better yet, call him a muslim.

Sometimes the left does the same thing by accusing the right of being racist, problem is at this point in time, there seems to be a lot more overt racism on the right...so hey the shoe seems to fits half the time.

Far as some democrats being racist. Yep, certainly..there is racism in both of the big, corporate parties that dominate American politics, big surprise.

Neither the reupblican party nor the democratic one have any place claiming they were instrumental in something like the civil rights movement, change in that department came from the people pushing for it, not from the politicians who eventually enacted legislation.

Nevertheless, by definition most of the forces opposing the civil rights movement would have been conservative in nature.


IMO... stop listening to people like Glen Beck. I can respect someone having different beliefs from my own, including being very right wing...however Glen Beck is pretty much full of crap, regularly lies about history, and even lies about current events. Lucky for him his fans don't seem to be the type that spend a lot of time worrying about pesky stuff like facts or reality.


The Planned Parenthood thing...true far as I know, but means very little today in terms of political positions to take on abortion or abortion funding.

There have been crazy )9*& -ups in positions of power from every place in the political spectrum. This idea the far right is blameless for things like racism, terrorism etc. and that all the blame lies with the left, that's so simple minded it's hardly worth mentioning.


A ridiculous position to take, and one that someone would only take when they have an exceptionally narrow, poorly informed view of the world from ignoring voices other than those on the far right of the political specturm.


Edited by Zach_Zinn (09/07/10 01:59 AM)

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#429775 - 09/07/10 02:25 AM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: Zach_Zinn]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
You're speaking my language Kimo. Big time agreement on those points. Didn't Bush call Iraq, Iran, and North Korea the "axis of evil"? lmao yeah that makes a ton of sense when Iraq and Iran were major enemies following radically different models of government and as far as I know North Korea only recently started giving a small amount of aid to Iran's nuclear program.

And lumping Muslims in with socialists makes not one bit of sense. Saddamn was an Arab Socialist who only payed lip service to his Islamic roots for the sake of winning the support of the Sunni's (though he did put a lot of support into the Sunni cause). He actually followed the soviet model. Iran is a Shia Muslim theocracy. Very different. And North Korea is communist and a world away just about with it's own interests.

I saw someone with a van with writing all over it calling Obama a "godless Muslim racist communist" lmao x10
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#429776 - 09/07/10 02:33 AM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: Stormdragon]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I do want to say Glenn Beck is very entertaining and has made some good points in the past. He's also a good balance against the idiot liberals in our country (dare I say Hillary, Pelosi, or tv personalities like Roseanne, good god).
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#429779 - 09/07/10 07:13 AM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: Stormdragon]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Glen Beck is an idiot on a network full of idiots, sorry.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#429789 - 09/07/10 08:46 PM Re: conspiracy-nut [Re: MattJ]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Never said he was a genius, or even all that smart (he apparently took one college class in his whole life). I said he was a good balance for the idiot liberals that I mentioned among others. And the fact that he has little post-secondary education and a lot of crappy ideas DOES NOT mean he is devoid of any good ideas. That my friend is an either-or fallacy. You can have a lot of stupid ideas AND good ones.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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