FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 30 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
AndyLA, danacohenn, ksusanc, kellypnik123, leyinn
22904 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 14
cxt 7
trevek 6
JKogas 5
futsaowingchun 3
July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/14/14 10:49 PM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/11/14 03:36 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
12/30/13 08:32 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Prizewriter
04/16/12 02:48 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
04/12/12 11:16 AM
Throwing
by
04/23/05 10:58 PM
Recent Posts
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Dobbersky
Yesterday at 05:11 AM
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:53 AM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by cxt
07/24/14 11:35 AM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/14/14 04:50 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:35 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
07/09/14 06:13 AM
Throwing
by JKogas
07/03/14 07:40 PM
Forum Stats
22904 Members
36 Forums
35564 Topics
432455 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#429642 - 09/04/10 01:56 AM Low kick pivot
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Do you guys pivot on the heel or toe?
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
#429648 - 09/04/10 10:44 AM Re: Low kick pivot [Re: Stormdragon]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Ball of the foot for me.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#429651 - 09/04/10 12:08 PM Re: Low kick pivot [Re: MattJ]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Ditto
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

Top
#429662 - 09/04/10 10:17 PM Re: Low kick pivot [Re: Kimo2007]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Seems liek that's the msot common. That's what my mma instructor prefers but I use the heel. More stab;e and powerful I think. You just telegraph a bit, so I spend a lot of time working set ups. I always at least shoot a cross and follow with the kick so they aren't watching me as I pivot. Bad Rutten makes it work so I figure if it's godo enough for him it's good enough form me. lol
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
#429714 - 09/06/10 06:44 AM Re: Low kick pivot [Re: Stormdragon]
matt_mcg Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 113
Pivoting on the heel doesn't make sense to me, I'm afraid.

Assuming you are moving on the balls of your feet 'boxing' style [which most people do, for mobility, speed, etc] then pivoting on the heel is a much slower and, as you say, telegraphed movement than rotating on the ball of the foot. It also seems like you'd be less rather than more stable if you've lifted the toes and ball of the feet off of the ground since that's normally how we maintain balance [flexing the forefoot, etc]. The heel, in contrast to the forefoot/ball-of-the-foot has no spring, no shock-absorption, no ability to control movement and change direction.

I'm not doubting that you can make it work for you, but it does seem [to me at least] counter-intuitive. It doesn't seem to offer any advantage at all over kicking via a pivot on the ball of the foot, and lots of disadvantages.

Try it, as an experiment, raise your toes off of the ground as if pivoting on the heel and ask someone to push you, and then try the same while on the balls of your feet. Which one lets you recover balance more effectively? And control the movement of the push?

Matt

Top
#429724 - 09/06/10 09:08 AM Re: Low kick pivot [Re: matt_mcg]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
I've tried kicking with the pivot on my toes and, at least for the thai kick, it doesn't work out so well. That telegraphing you mentioend is a problem that I solve by punching or checking for a second with the hand on the kicking side. That generally distracts them enough to get the kick, and can even cause some pain.

This is what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5iTWCwlZyM
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
#429741 - 09/06/10 12:35 PM Re: Low kick pivot [Re: Stormdragon]
matt_mcg Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 113
I'd worry that the immobility is going to lead to regrets soon or later. You can't really rely on that sort of distracting move, or broken time. Advanced kickers are going to be used to it, I'd expect. If you are on your heel and someone lifts their leg over your low kick and front kicks you -- which'd be a standard savate type reply to a low kick -- for example, you'd struggle to recover, I'd have thought?

I might be wrong, of course, but I can see lots of ways in which a problem might arise.

Top
#429742 - 09/06/10 12:40 PM Re: Low kick pivot [Re: matt_mcg]
matt_mcg Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 113
Incidentally, Rutten pivots on the ball of his foot a lot in that vid. He plants the foot with the step and then rotates on the ball.
Look at the kick on 3min and again at 3:10/3:11. Same again at 3:30/3:35-ish.

[Can't listen to the audio on this computer, so I am going by visuals only]

Top
#429769 - 09/06/10 10:43 PM Re: Low kick pivot [Re: matt_mcg]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Ok well I guess I don't pivot on my heel entirely then because as far as it looks to me (I just did a few to check closely) it's almost exactly the same as he does it except my upper body moves just a tad differently. He says in the vid though "some teachers say pivot on the ball of your foot...don't do it, trust me you'll have more power pivoting on your heel."

Your points o nthe vulnerabilities of that method are definitely valid, I'm sure more sparring will either show me that it's nto a good method or betetr yet I'll find ways to nullify those counters. I've only been kicking with that style (the thai way as opposed to Karate or TKD kicking) for a short time.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

Top
#429846 - 09/09/10 01:50 PM Re: Low kick pivot [Re: Stormdragon]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Id say the ball of the foot and for safety reasons amongst other things. The foot has to be free to be dynamic and using the heel will put a break on the foot but the knee might keep going and its going to damage them over time. I heard not long ago Bas Rutten found it hard getting to the end of his drive because of injuries. It probably from all sorts of things.
_________________________
I point my saxaphone at the rare Booted Gorilla.

Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >


Moderator:  Cord, MattJ, Reiki, Taison 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Ryukyu Art
Artifacts from the Ryukyu Kingdom missing since WWII. Visit www.ShisaLion.Org to view pictures

Best Stun Guns
Self Defense Products-stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and more

Surveillance 4U
Complete surveillance systems for covert operations or secure installation security

Asylum Images
Book presents photo tour of the Trans-Allegany Lunatic Asylum. A must if you're going to take a ghost tour!

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga