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#429088 - 08/14/10 05:56 AM Jujitsu or Judo most effective?
jubbs14 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 13
Hi Guys,

I keep going over this question in my head, thought I would run it by you as your experience and knowledge can maybe help me out.

I have been studying a form of Jujitsu (For arguments sake we shall call it traditional even though its not) for just over a year now, I have reached mid level rank (green belt). I enjoy the art and the class is relaxed and friendly.

However some of the techniques the club teaches would be very hard to apply in the outside world. The main reason for this is we train with non resistance, it is almost like a choreographed phase of movements.

I also have been taking Commando Krav Maga crossed with other combatives for 2years. A lot of the techniques I have learned in Jujitsu are difficult to pull off in these classes against guys who are resisting. This has got me thinking, should I really be training in Judo, which would give me the opportunity to practice throws and locks against opponents who are resisting?

I really do enjoy Jujitsu and would see it as a great accomplishment to reach black belt in the particular style, however at the end of the day if the techniques I am learning simply only ‘look’ effective rather than ‘being’ effective should I really continue? Or is it the fact that I am not yet skilled enough to perform the techniques successfully as say a black belt possibly would?

I may give Judo a try, the only thing that puts me off Judo slightly is a few people I know (including my father) who have studied the art have told me horror stories of injuries they have received. But I guess this is inevitable in such a contact sport?

Your views would be greatly appreciated.

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#429089 - 08/14/10 08:35 AM Re: Jujitsu or Judo most effective? [Re: jubbs14]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573

I studied with the WJJF for a few months, and we had to do hip throws against non-resisting opponents.

In Judo class we drilled a few throws for the first half of the class, then tried to apply them in Randori (sparring, if you like). It is hard to describe the huge chasm between the difficulty levels of throwing a compliant partner vs throwing a fully resistant partner.

Even Judo white belts, usual due to nerves, would tense up and plant their weight as they didn't want to get thrown. It was tough for even experienced Judo-ka to throw them.

As for throws in an actual fight outside of class.... Well, for me throws are in the same category as high kicks: Very risky for me to try!! In order to make a lot of my Judo throws work I had to drive my weight down and this meant as often as not I landed on the ground with my training partner. Usually it was in an advantageous position but sometimes it wasn't.

I think it was Taison who described Judo throws as dynamically slamming someone in to the ground, which I agree with. If a person isn't expecting this or hasn't experienced this, no doubt in my mind they are in for a world of pain, not to mention the possibly they will get badly injured too.

Injuries in Judo are usually caused by people not falling well from a throw. Good work on break falls can help prevent this, but nothing is certain in a full contact sport.

Check a class and see what you think. FWIW, I think Brazilian Jiu Jitsu has a lot of similarities to Judo but is safer (you don't get thrown anywhere near as much!).

Check out a Judo class and see what you think. A good club will go easy on a noob, so you will get a feel for it without too much risk!
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#429090 - 08/14/10 09:19 AM Re: Jujitsu or Judo most effective? [Re: Prizewriter]
jubbs14 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 13
I think you may be correct about throws being risky in a real fight. Well for me anyway as most guys will prob have the weight advantage over myself. But I still like to learn the throws.

I am very tempted to try Brazilian Jiu Jitsu too, it does look a little safer (in terms of not being slammed as much!).

Thanks for advice I will have a look at both. To be honest I wish I had enough time and money to do all of them!

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#429162 - 08/16/10 10:30 PM Re: Jujitsu or Judo most effective? [Re: jubbs14]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Stop worrying about what is "most effective", if you want to get into that debate, buy some books on the subject or something...you aren't gonna solve that equation simply by doing another art, it gets talked into oblivion, and is a huge subject..the fact that you can't use something in your Krav maga class may testify to it's ineffectiveness, or it may mean you just didn't use it right, or it may mean someone taught it to you in a way that makes it nearly impossible to actually use.

Just learning a technique statically doesn't mean you should be able to use it immediately in sparring, it's a tiered process the whole "progressive resistance" thing.

If you really want to get your hands dirty and get right into it, try Judo. Main reason i'd say is that it's usually cheaper than almost anything else, it's readily available, and generally it is very standardized.

There is a definite reason to learns static throws, it's not as if you can magically get a good harai goshi by just doing three times and going at it in Randori, the combination of static drilling and improvement of technique and entry, uchi komi, uchi nage practice and progressively moving all that stuff into randori is what makes Judo so interesting to me, the static drilling and the randori are both part of it.


So yeah if Judo interests you try it, I've been doing it for a few months now and it's a ball, just get ready to lose a lot. Randori against blackbelts is just falling practice!

I asked the judoka I know how to avoid injuries...the most important piece of advice from all of them was basically not to be macho..if you need to fall take the fall, if it's time to tap then you need to tap, even if it hurts your pride.

Other thing is, it seems like competition is the more common place to get injured. I chose not to compete because I am getting old enough that I don't want to risk the recovery...so far Randori and newaza in class has been quite safe for everything but my pride, which has been repeatedly broken:)

Just make sure you learn to fall well, and take the fall when in doubt!


Edited by Zach_Zinn (08/16/10 10:44 PM)

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#429168 - 08/17/10 03:38 AM Re: Jujitsu or Judo most effective? [Re: Zach_Zinn]
jubbs14 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 13
Hi Zach_Zinn thanks for your input.

There is a definite reason to learns static throws, it's not as if you can magically get a good harai goshi by just doing three times and going at it in Randori, the combination of static drilling and improvement of technique and entry, uchi komi, uchi nage practice and progressively moving all that stuff into randori is what makes Judo so interesting to me, the static drilling and the randori are both part of it.

I agree that there is a reason to learn static throws and I welcome it. The problem is a lot of the time at my club we only train them staticly. I think this is the theme with most Jujitsu clubs.
If Judo trains both staticly and with resistance then this sounds great. I will go take a look.

Thanks for input

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