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#429167 - 08/17/10 03:34 AM Question for anyone who has studied Wing Tsun
brugal Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/17/10
Posts: 1
Hi everyone! I have been interested for quite some time now in taking up a martial art. While researching I came across this forum and thought I would join up.

So here's the deal, The two martial arts I am very inclined towards studying are Wing tsun and akido, both in their own respective ways, and for a number of reasons, and I would like to pursue one of these two this fall. I am still undecided as to which one, but am leaning towards Wing tsun.

So now to the question/issue. I am currently in training as a surgeon, and given the nature of my career/training I can't undertake a martial are that would pose a high risk to injury of my hands/fingers. I realize that there is obviously always some risk in any sport, and of course I'm not concerned about small bumps and bruises, but my question is basically whether or not Wing tsun in inherently hard on the hands (ie sticky hands, using the wooden dummy, body and hand conditioning etc).

Thank you for any advice, I really appreciate it.

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#429169 - 08/17/10 03:44 AM Re: Question for anyone who has studied Wing Tsun [Re: brugal]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Hello and welcome.

You might want to avoid Aikido... it usually includes wrist and finger manipulations.

Wing Chun, from what I've seen, may or may not have a lot of contact (outside of Sticking Hands). If you go to a traditional class that doesn't have a lot of contact, chances are your hands aren't going to get damaged much.

You could also try and find a good Taiji (aka Tai Chi) class that teaches Taiji as a martial art.
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#429895 - 09/11/10 05:03 PM Re: Question for anyone who has studied Wing Tsun [Re: Prizewriter]
VonCrane Offline
Stranger

Registered: 09/11/10
Posts: 1
Loc: Central Florida
Welcome,

Taiji over Aikido. If you can get used to vertical fists and hitting a wall bag for training, I'd go with Wing Chun. For a surgeon I agree with Prizewriter, find a good taiji class before delving into Wing Chun.
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#429938 - 09/14/10 01:57 AM Re: Question for anyone who has studied Wing Tsun [Re: brugal]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
I think the main danger with Aikido would be accidentally getting your fingers stuck in someones gi before a throw and breaking them, or landing wrong during a break fall. With conscientious training partners and being careful, I don't think there would be much chance of injury--especially if you do one of the 'softer' styles.

Wing Chun should also not present a huge problem for you, assuming that you don't engage in any hand conditioning exercises. One doesn't have to do that. A wall bag shouldn't hurt your hands, because you shouldn't be hitting a wall bag with any power until you have good structure. By the time you start putting power in the strikes, your structure should be such that there will be no injury to the hands.

Taiji might be a good bet, assuming you only practice the form(s). However, a school that emphasizes the martial aspect of the art will likely teach chin na and throws. So you might have the same issue as Aikido, except now some of the joint locks will be aimed directly at your fingers. Personally, I've found Taiji to be far more brutal in application than Aikido.

Your best bet would be to go to schools in your area and talk to the teacher about your concerns and see what they say.
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"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#429976 - 09/15/10 06:46 PM Re: Question for anyone who has studied Wing Tsun [Re: Ames]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Usually new to Aikido even if experience in other strik9ing Arts your wrist and finger will need to become more flexiable and you will need to learn to flow. After a while you will leave not swore.

Wing Chun the way I believe it should be practiced with two man. With a partner even though a supposited Gung-fu/soft art. You will bang up your wrist, forarms, shins and thigh. Even in intermediate Chi sao it becomes something you get use to but it can take awhile if you are not.

Taji - Is much like Aikido accept that they admit that they will strike often if need be. Mid section strengthening is required and learning to flow and gather energy. Taji use of energy or its oppponent's is much like Aikido's accept that it explodes (with kicks and strikes) as well as absorbs (locks and throws). Aikido throws are really breaks or submissions that can throw. Taji throws are throws that can break, it does have limb and neck breaks in it.

Its my O that Wing Chun would get you on pace for application faster as it is its purpose.


Edited by Neko456 (09/15/10 06:51 PM)
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#429996 - 09/16/10 01:11 PM Re: Question for anyone who has studied Wing Tsun [Re: Neko456]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Neko I would tend to agree with you that generally Wing Chun would be quicker to application than Taiji. But that has more to do with the way Taiji is commonly taught in the West than any thing else.

I currently study both arts, and would say that, if taught right, they both depend on similar principles/concepts only that they are deployed differently. Wing Chun relies on Tun (swallow), To (spit), Fou (float), Chum (sink), and Taiji relies on the same principles to work. The main difference that I see is that Wing Chun 'snaps' the root, while Taiji 'tears' it. Think of the difference between using an axe to chop through a root in one blow (wing chun uprooting), or wraping a chain around the trunk, connecting the chain to vehicle and ripping (tearing) it out of the ground (taiji uprooting. Keep in mind tho that this analogy isn't to say that taiji takes longer to uproot, just that the feeling is different.

I've seen some very poor (martially speaking) Wing Chun and some very excellent Taiji. But again, I agree that most Taiji is directed to the New Age crowd and is crap.

Here's a couple nice vids of Taiji as it is rarely seen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdgarMKaqG0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUf1llA3HXg

-Chris
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#429997 - 09/16/10 01:50 PM Re: Question for anyone who has studied Wing Tsun [Re: Ames]
Shi Ronglang Offline
石榮狼
Member

Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 91
Loc: Samarobriva, Gallia
Great videos, Ames! Thanks a lot for sharing. smile
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#430019 - 09/18/10 11:18 AM Re: Question for anyone who has studied Wing Tsun [Re: Shi Ronglang]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
I`m glad you enjoyed them Shi! I`ve watched them a few times now and everytime I see new things going on and realize how difficult some of that stuff is.
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#430020 - 09/18/10 03:34 PM Re: Question for anyone who has studied Wing Tsun [Re: Ames]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Very nice, Ames! Some cool throws and sweeps in there.
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#430070 - 09/21/10 12:50 PM Re: Question for anyone who has studied Wing Tsun [Re: MattJ]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Those push hands clips are very different to the way we push. Here is a clip from my Sifu pushing:

http://www.youtube.com/user/shikonboss#p/u/0/1hNDl5apozk

Also Sifu Sam Chin of I Liq Chuan has some great push hands skill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk1v4RXsH8U
_________________________
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www.SHIKON.COM
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#430072 - 09/21/10 06:20 PM Re: Question for anyone who has studied Wing Tsun [Re: Gavin]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
I like those clips Gavin, they both demonstrate a high level of skill (far more than I have!).

But at the same time, I like the way the Wu system is working the pushhands more than most other demonstrations I've seen. Here's why, while most systems work from a 'trapping' range, the Wu system is mostly working from a clinch range. Steve's video is mostly flowing chin na from arms length. A good skill, but I don't know either a)how internal it is (and I can't know because I can't see it demonstrated here, nor have I touched hands with him) b)how martially effective this would be against a concerted attempt to clinch/grapple. I say this from my Aikido/DR background--we worked in this range alot, with similar techniques. That is not to say that this is poor, actually I think flowing chin na skills like this are a really great and important skill to have in these days of lawsuits!

The I Liq Chuan clip is interesting, and the teacher obviously has a lot internal skill. I don't want to comment on what is going on there because he seems to be showing body dynamics, as opposed to actual combative techniques. His body structure is amazing. In his demonstration, he also does work mostly at arms length too, though.

When you look at the Wu clips they are almost always working a clinch range, often after grips have been established...so I tend to think this better suits the reality of grappling.


Edited by Ames (09/21/10 06:48 PM)
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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