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#262871 - 04/28/07 10:01 PM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: Stormdragon]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Ok, how about this, my primary weapon is the M240B machine gun. My secondary is an M16A2. I can't fix a bayonet to the MG, I'm not effectively clubbing someone with it in the middle of an oh s### situation, and it is definitely a long range weapon (10m is way too close). So, I get trapped in a building, My rifle jams, and someone is coming toward my location, presumably hostile and armed. My best bet is to ascertain what I safely can, leave a minimal safety margin for fratricide avoidance, and use the bayonet as a knife or a kbar.

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#262872 - 04/29/07 12:17 PM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
1. are you really carrying both a medium machine gun and a carbine? that seems not to be the best way of working, but I have no idea what is SOP where you are. we usually had the machine gunners just carrying a maching gun and a handgun, or a knife (and I would say this is one example when a knife is a good back up weapon).

2. why are you clearing rooms with a medium machine gun? wouldn't it be a better idea to have you providing squad/platoon security? its hard enough to clear rooms with a carbine, a machine gun is not the right weapon, IMO.

3. a machine gunner has less reason, than anybody else, to be all alone in a room with a bag guy. if that is the case, sure, maybe your knife if what you need to survive. but I am not saying that a knife is not a good weapon - I am saying it is a waste of training time. what is the chance that you will be faced with knife welding enemy when you are alone and your firearms are all inoperative?

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#262873 - 04/29/07 08:24 PM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: globetrotter]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
That would be my company MTOE, I carry an MG and a rifle backup. Honestly, I would never be clearing rooms in Iraq, my unit's mission is route clearance. But if civil war does break out in Iraq, I could get caught in the middle of it. Therefore, some time spent training for a broad range of "what if" situations isn't wasted.

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#262874 - 04/29/07 10:49 PM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
globetrotter Offline
does unto others before they do unto him

Registered: 01/10/05
Posts: 637
Loc: ny usa
you actually "hump" a machine gun and a rifle? or you have a MG on your vehicle and a rifle? hard for me to imagine why anybody would carry both.

as to what if, sure - I think that the chance of a machine gunner needing to kill somebody with a knife is pretty unlikely, but I guess it could happen.

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#262875 - 04/30/07 03:07 PM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: globetrotter]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
I hump the mg on foot, I have both in a vehicle, as we are a mech unit. However, a 27 lbs mg is nothing to swing like a club. So, if all hell does break loose, then yes, some what if training that works in many situations is helpful

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#262876 - 05/03/07 04:05 AM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
kman Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 368
Loc: minnesota
Bushi, I've been in country 13 1/2 mos. Ive never seen a 240 gunner without a pistol or WITH an addtional rifle and Ive never seen a 240 gunner or any other solodier ALONE in the field. depending on where you mob you may get the warrior school CQC block. That'll shed some light on expedient weapons. (hint, dont limit your thinking) Definetly have a good sheath knife on your IBA.
I cant believe how this thread wont die and the twists it takes. You might check out my previous thread on army combatives. K-

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#262877 - 05/09/07 10:34 PM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: kman]
Bushi_no_ki Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 1667
Loc: POM, Monterey CA
Kman, thanks for some insight. I just know what I'm assigned as a primary and secondary weapon. Who knows what will change when I get downrange. I do know I haven't even touched a m9, outside of one training exercise about six months ago. We'll see how it develops.

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#262878 - 07/14/07 05:15 PM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: Bushi_no_ki]
badeofblade Offline
Member

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 46
Erm -
The form is ALL sloppy, I mean, come on, the guard escape puts you in a choke...
And how did Juijitsu start? Because samurai were loaded down with too much _gear_ and _armour_ for striking to be effective. If for some reason I got into a hand-to-hand match with a S.W.A.T. bloke, I'd go for a takedown, no doubt.
_________________________
Scientific Street Fighter|Weapon of Choice = Combat Boots|Tool of Choice = Elbows

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#262879 - 07/14/07 07:56 PM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: badeofblade]
shantungks Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/07
Posts: 38
Not another BJJ is the best!!!!!Please!! As far as I know and some of the research that I have found, BJJ is for mainly fighting on the ground. For sport, matches with rules, etc in a battle field would be useless and I would not take the risk with it in a battle ground. After my research I learned that samurai would fight standing up and would do throws and finish either by cutting, stabbing or a blow to a sensitive area not by spending 10 minutes on the ground while there is fighting going around them, people dropping dead cut up and bleeding all over. While you are on the ground waiting to finish with a submission. In some cases no need to do a throw, a nice cut with their swords was enough.
In war this days you would rarely use H2H. Most soldiers are well armed and trained to use knives and other objects to survive an attack if their weapons jam. It would be nice to see videos where soldiers are in full gear and try to grapple on the ground.

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#262880 - 07/15/07 04:01 AM Re: US Modern Army Combatives Program [Re: shantungks]
Leo_E_49 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 4117
Loc: California
I think you perhaps missed the point.
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Self Defense
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