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#428461 - 07/21/10 05:05 PM Captain not-American
bcihak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
Well, hollywood is going to do it again. John Nolte posted comments from the director about the new Captain America movie on the Big Hollywood site. It is not unexpected, it is just getting really old.

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#428464 - 07/22/10 07:36 AM Re: Breitbart is a liar [Re: bcihak]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Anyone that reads his site's crap is a moron. The movie hasn't even come out and the right-wing wackos are whining already. Why don't you unbunch your panties and wait till it opens. Big baby.
_________________________
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#428481 - 07/22/10 01:30 PM Re: Breitbart is a liar [Re: MattJ]
bcihak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
Wow. Great come back. Very insightful and full of deep intellect. Thanks. From your comment about Breitbart you are pretty clueless as well.


Edited by bcihak (07/22/10 01:31 PM)

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#428483 - 07/22/10 01:39 PM Re: Breitbart is a liar [Re: bcihak]
bcihak Offline
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Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
Now, for a more thoughtful insight into hollywood from an article at Breitbart.coms Big Hollywood, by Declaration media. The reason American movies are less respectful of their american audiences and their values is that the studios no longer own the movie theaters their movies are shown in. The government, again, passed a law forcing them to sell their ownership of the theaters. Now that a large chunk of revenue was lost they had to find new ways to make their money. A big part of this is foreign film markets where the cultural values of the American people may not be the same as the cultural values of the other countries. This has resulted in a dramatic drop in movie attendance by the American people not completely explained by new media and video games. This is not an exact quote but it gets close enough. That is why Captain "America" will not focus so much on being an american soldier as he will be a guy trying to do the "right" thing. Thanks MattJ for your intellectual insight.


Edited by bcihak (07/22/10 01:50 PM)

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#428484 - 07/22/10 02:03 PM Re: Breitbart is a liar [Re: bcihak]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Loc: York PA. USA
Oh my goodness! You mean there are people that don't live in the USA? I never realized that! Do you suppose they have MONEY, like us? Do you think that the studios have decided that they can make MONEY from people other than Americans? But you're probably right.......*sniffle*. Those savages from other lands don't have VALUES like us, so they must be inferior. Those poor, ignorant ba$tards. Thank GOODNESS for people like you and Breitbart to set them straight. Limiting markets is the American way!

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#428486 - 07/22/10 02:26 PM Re: Breitbart is a liar [Re: MattJ]
bcihak Offline
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Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
Simply explaining that showing a positive movie about america may not be as popular in places like france, the middle east, China, Russia, and so on. Maybe not even in Britain. There are certain values that are different, such as fighting the war on terror, political stances and so on that are different to the regular american people as opposed to the elites in america and overseas. Expanding markets is what capitalism is about and selling tickets is what the movie business used to be about. Artistic and political stances are more important to too many people in hollywood than selling movies to half of the American audience. I am all for people making money, I am simply explaining why ticket sales are down here in the states and why I am not gung ho thrilled that a comic book hero of mine is getting his own movie.


Edited by bcihak (07/22/10 02:28 PM)

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#428488 - 07/22/10 02:36 PM Re: Breitbart is a liar [Re: bcihak]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:
Expanding markets is what capitalism is about and selling tickets is what the movie business used to be about.


It still is. There are more people in the world than there are in America. Simple mathematics.

Quote:
Artistic and political stances are more important to too many people in hollywood than selling movies to half of the American audience.


See above. I think it has more to do with making money than political stances per se.

Quote:
I am all for people making money, I am simply explaining why ticket sales are down here in the states and why I am not gung ho thrilled that a comic book hero of mine is getting his own movie.


Ticket sales are down for several reasons - DVD's, HDTV, cinema expense, the economy, etc. Not because movies aren't Chuck Heston conservative enough. And again, you are jumping the gun quite a bit, aren't you? A few vague quotes, and you've decided how a movie that hasn't even come out is going to be?

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#428489 - 07/22/10 02:38 PM Re: Breitbart is a liar [Re: MattJ]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Loc: York PA. USA
Did you like the Rambo movies?
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#428492 - 07/22/10 03:35 PM Re: Breitbart is a liar [Re: MattJ]
bcihak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
The Rambo movies were okay, I have never been a big Stallone fan. He was great in Rocky though. The first one did fall into the crazy vietnam war vet mode. The article points out that the decline in American attendance can't just be explained by the new media and video game. I think some of it has to do with the actors and actresses in these movies not understanding what it means to promote a movie. For example, Tom Hanks came out before his HBO show about the pacific came out and said some really stupid things that were offensive to about half of the country. Another example, just before Inception came out the actress from Juno, the architect from the movie, and the guy from third rock from the sun did an interview to promote the movie. The interviewer asked them if there was anyone they would like to implant ideas into and she fell back to insulting George Bush, and Dick Cheney. Megan fox, when she was interviewed for Transformers 2 said if she was in the movie for real she would ask the bad guys to just kill people from the red states, you know, the bible thumpers. Now, I think they can say whatever they want because I believe in the American value of Freedom Of Speech. From a business point of view, the directors and producers of these movies might want to ask their employees to not insult half of their american customer base. I also believe that people should make whatever movies they want to make and noone should interfere with that. That is the American value of Freedom of Speech again. No government cencorship. As a movie goer with the 10.50 in my pocket, I can decide not to go and see a movie and either see it for a dollar at the local redbox or see it on cable. I do have a wait and see attitude but experience has shown that from the directors statements, Captain America may be disapointing. Also, as a consumer of movies, I can try to let the director and producer know, albeit indirectly, from internet traffic, that he may want to look at what he is doing with his movie if he wants 10.50 and not just 1.00.
Why not edit two versions of the film. For example, In Superman 2 for the American version, you leave in Truth, Justice and the American way, and for the overseas audience you take out the american way. I, however, agree with John Nolte in that a gung ho American film would do just as well overseas as an edited one would do. A lot of people around the world still see us as a land of opportunity after all.


Edited by bcihak (07/22/10 03:42 PM)

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#428509 - 07/23/10 12:44 AM Re: Breitbart is a liar [Re: bcihak]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: bcihak
That is why Captain "America" will not focus so much on being an american soldier as he will be a guy trying to do the "right" thing.


So you are saying that there is a difference between traditional American values and what is right.

And I thought you were a patriot.
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#428510 - 07/23/10 12:58 AM Re: Captain not-American [Re: bcihak]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
"Captain America" starred Dick Purcell in 13 Saturday matinee episodes.

He was kinda short, uh, vertically challenged.

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#428515 - 07/23/10 05:02 AM Re: Captain not-American [Re: iaibear]
bcihak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
Actually, that is what the director said during his interview so you may be questioning his patriotism. I know that American Soldiers try their best to do the right thing all the time. Ask vets from Iraq or Afganistan. That is what leads me to believe the movie may not hold true to the character of Captain America. I read the Citizen Soldier and D-Day, by the same author Stephen Ambrose, one of the points he made in the books is that during World War 2, when the German, Russian, Italian and Japanese armies were rampaging across the world, it was the American Soldier, and I am sure he would include the British, Canadian and other allied soldiers, who were the only ones greeted happily by terrified people. The Axis armies and the russians raped, murdered and pilllaged their way across the world, the American soldiers and their allies came as liberators. The director may not understand that .


Edited by bcihak (07/23/10 05:14 AM)

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#428517 - 07/23/10 09:49 AM Re: Captain not-American [Re: bcihak]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
You do know how dumb Joseph McCarthy looks with the hindsight of half a century dont you? How paranoid, how hypocritical, and how contrary to the values of free speech and 'american values' his campaign was?

Ever seen 'V for Vendetta' ? The comic was written by a left wing artist as a critique on where he saw Thatcher's Britain going if taken to its logical, extreme conclusion.

As with all dystopian, Orwellian fiction, it relies on a govt. that censors and controls public thought, in its own interest, but under the guise of benevolence through creating a fear from which people feel they need to be protected.

When they made the movie, the govt. and the London council shut of Parliament square to allow the filming of the climactic scenes.

That in itself shows that the worries that the film addresses, are far away from the reality of our modern Britain.

Art has always, and will always, be the elbow test in the bath of your society. The fact that Hollywood is free to make movies that you percieve as critical and unpatriotic in their outlook, is exactly the rights that Captain America fought for.

The day that Hollywood becomes a pro-govt. propaganda machine is the day that the 'American Way' dies.

I would also add that 'Captain America' was born of WWII. A superhero built for purpose in a unique place in history. He was born of a USA that was reticent to get involved in international affairs, feeling cushioned by self sufficiency, and the protection of the expanse of ocean surrounding it.

The USA of today is very different, and, like it or not, it has, in international policy, come to emulate the structure of Empire.

As with any such system, the message of benevolence, and the assimilation of foreign culture requires an empathic approach to maintain influence and control. The Roman and British colonies maintained their cultures, and the foreign practices became adopted slowly through continued exposure, and winning of hearts and minds by bringing practical measures that improved quality of life. Pockets of resistance continued for years, sometimes decades, but control of the riches and resources of the regions in question made it worth it.

Sound familiar?

Captain America is not now 'anti-american', he is being envisioned for the modern world, and America's place, and agenda within it. Making him a 1940's anachronism in a modern movie would be ridiculous.
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#428520 - 07/23/10 11:02 AM Re: Captain not-American [Re: Cord]
bcihak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
Actually, if you look at the information since the soviet union opened up Joe McCarthy looks more right than wrong. You mean the Thatcher government that with Ronald Reagan helped bring about the fall of the Berlin wall? Sure, Hollywood can make whatever they want, my point, again, is that the director does not understand the country he lives in and its place in the world. We are slowly not assimilating foreign cultures who are moving into our country but much like Britain and France we are accepting enclaves of foreign cultures within our borders. The riots in France within the muslim enclaves, excuse me, the riots by "french youths" and the new brown berets of intolerant immigrants here, in the states are examples of people not assimimlating to the culture of the countries they move to. I have to say that 'V for Vendetta' was another lefty movie that should have looked in the mirror since leftisit policies end up with that sort of society not conservative, pro-individual freedom policies.


Edited by bcihak (07/23/10 11:05 AM)

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#428522 - 07/23/10 11:38 AM Re: Captain not-American [Re: bcihak]
bcihak Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/07
Posts: 298
Loc: Illinois
Oh, I just realized, a socialist government in Britain giving permission to a film company to bash the Thatcher government is not really a symbol of free speech. How about the British government banning the American radio talk show host Michael Savage from visiting Britain, in fact putting him on the watch list with radical islamic extremists. I am not a fan of Michael Savage, but banning him, because he is a conservative radio host, does not really speak well of Britains free speech policy.

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#428524 - 07/23/10 12:40 PM Re: Captain not-American [Re: bcihak]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
I was not referring to how cultures are recieved in our repsective countries. I was talking about how our countries enforce their presence and cultures in other cultures. You switched tack to avoid acknowledging the similarities between empirs of history, and your current international policy.
You cannot enforce democracy. That is an oxymoron that no amount of flag waving will validate.

As to our 'left wing' govt. of the last 12 years, to consider them such shows a shocking ignorance or what has been going on in the UK under that rule, and where they have been coming from.

Anyway, all this is completely off topic, and not permisable content for this forum. The simple truth is that Hollywood is an industry that relies upon, and caters to, a global community. The fact that the majority of people working within the film industry are american really doesnt matter.

Avatar:
Domestic Gross: $749,705,969
Rest of World: $1,981,220,328

That means that 73% of money made by the studio was made outside the united states.

If the market chooses to cater to its main target customer, then that is capitalism 101 in action, and as an american, you should be proud that a homegrown industry has used its free speech and ambition to flourish on a global stage.

That is the 'American way' after all.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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