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#250044 - 08/23/07 08:43 PM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: Neko456]
wristtwister Offline
like a chiropractor, only evil

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 2210
Loc: South Carolina
Let's take this in a different direction... how about the frequency of the punch? A punch taking .01 of a second would have a different frequency than that of a punch of .005 of a second to deliver the same force. Now, with that in mind, is it possible to hit the "T-wave" at the right time to accomodate the one hit necessary for death?

Also, the skeletal system transmits shock throughout the system, so is it possible that the frequency of the punch is the actual culprit of causing the commotio cordis effect? (Hope I spelled that right)... Since it isn't the "force" that causes the problem, but the frequency of the heart's sinus rhythm, it seems logical to me...

Just wanted to throw that out there for discussion. If you've ever been hit by someone doing "vibrating palm" techniques, you'll already know the answer...

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#250045 - 08/23/07 10:39 PM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: wristtwister]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
'frequency' isn't exactly the correct term. I think you mean 'impulse' - which is basically an amount of force applied within a range of time. (the time of impact).

"Now, with that in mind, is it possible to hit the "T-wave" at the right time to accomodate the one hit necessary for death?"
of course it is possible. The question as it related to Martial Arts is: is it reliable? that answer is no. the reason is because you don't know what T-phase your opponent's heart is in -and even if you did, it would take advanced robotic precision to time it. even then, there are other factors which are dependant upon the health/resiliance/etc of the targeted heart.

If you attempt to hit an opponent in the chest (over the heart) with a punch...you'd only manage to make him annoyed, even in the unlikely event that it wasn't at least partially deflected.

compound that with the unlikely situation of not only trying to protect yourself, but also trying to kill the attacker.

All of that makes it an unreliable and unrealistic target. time is better spent training 'sure things' than long shots, IMO.

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#250046 - 08/23/07 11:52 PM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: Ed_Morris]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Wristwister You are getting technicail on me, I agree that if you use a technique at the right time of the day and to the right vital sign you could do lots of damage, even death in theory.

But what I was calling an accident is the strike like in glove or sparring period or in Football were it was an accident. You shouldn't stop sparring because of an accident. The guy that died could have had an problem that he was not aware of.

I'd have to say that I've seen strikes to the heart have people do everything from faint, loose their breath as if hit in the solar plex or just walk around dizzy and fall to the ground eyes open but unable to move. In the least I've seen them cough breathing problem and eyes water from a strike to the heart area. Of course I'm talking barefisted in dojo self defense scenarios or and in a conflicts that an assoicate was once in. Strikes to the heart are not to be played with in my small ho.

If deflected theres hardly any effect if the guys in shape, maybe a cough and a snort.


Edited by Neko456 (08/23/07 11:54 PM)
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#250047 - 08/24/07 12:05 AM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: BrianS]
Usenthemighty Offline
Member

Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 78
Loc: Nash hood , TN
Well,I train for it. )8^) I practice doing my little air punching for speed,useless kata, and bag work for power. Except I do not expect to kill anyone with one hit. I do however believe it only takes a little to finish any encounter. Especially with out gloves. ( had a terrible experience)

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#428442 - 07/19/10 10:54 PM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: wristtwister]
oliver555 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 2
I've heard years ago it's quite possible to kill with a blow. You just need to strike upwards hard at the nose to drive broken bits of bone into the brain.

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#428443 - 07/20/10 12:23 AM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: oliver555]
MastaFighta Offline
Member

Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 260
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: oliver555
I've heard years ago it's quite possible to kill with a blow. You just need to strike upwards hard at the nose to drive broken bits of bone into the brain.

http://fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=511

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#428449 - 07/20/10 06:36 PM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: Ed_Morris]
Mark Jordan Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 138
Loc: Burbank, California
One punch, one kill should not be taken literally. This does not necessarily mean killing your opponent. It can mean finding the weakest area and hitting it as hard as you can or honing your techniques to achieve maximum effect thus incapacitating your opponent and "killing" the attack or fight or "killing" your opponent's will to fight.

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#428452 - 07/20/10 08:57 PM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: MastaFighta]
oliver555 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 2
Originally Posted By: MastaFighta
Originally Posted By: oliver555
I've heard years ago it's quite possible to kill with a blow. You just need to strike upwards hard at the nose to drive broken bits of bone into the brain.

http://fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=511



Dang. I've had that myth in my head for at least 10years. Thanks for that MastaFighta.

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#428462 - 07/21/10 07:59 PM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: Mark Jordan]
Phenix_Rider Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 9
It absolutely is possible to kill someone with one strike. But not necessarily a body blow. Focusing on stopping the heart is silly. You don't need to. Collapse the windpipe, break the spine, block the carotid, shock the brain hard enough, arteries in the groin... Yes, boxers survive headshots all the time, and so do hockey players and football players. But the next step up from a concussion is brain damage, and from there death.

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#428529 - 07/23/10 03:23 PM Re: One punch,one kill [Re: oliver555]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
It is possible to create a hemorrage in that sinus? cavity between the nose and the brain. Enough pressure could (very unlikely) build up to cause brain damage or death. But, it's still not pushing the nose into the brain. It's basically just hitting the skull hard enough to create bleeding in the space betweend the brain and skull. Enough of that can kill. It was explained much more eloquently by someone else on a different thread... but I don't have the time or patience to hunt that thread down. (it may be somewhere earlier in this thread. I didn't realize how long it was until after I was finished with my post)

There are plenty of ways to kill with a single blow, and most of them require some very special circumstances, and a few do not. Easiest one? Hit someone hard enough that they fall backwards and hit their head on the sidewalk, concrete, curb, rock, coffee table, etc. This of course leads us back to the scenario mentioned above. The rest require a bit of training and those special circumstances that I am not goin to get into here. And they are low percentage anyway. You're far more likely do achieve this entirely by accident... and the judge/jury probably won't care that it was.
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