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#428403 - 07/18/10 09:41 AM How important are breaking techniques in a fight?
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
Bruce Lee has said that it's not daily increase, it's daily decrease. Given the fraud and increasing pretentiousness in the martial arts, his words have never been more true.

He also said that breaking techniques, as in training to break a stack of bricks, is not needed in training a martial artist how to fight. My former master has also said the same thing. I would have thought that such training is important to increasing a person's power strikes, but I've never been able to do that, so I don't really know.

I'm therefore wondering if anyone can explain to me why breaking techniques do not increase the hitting power that someone would have in a real fight.

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#428405 - 07/18/10 11:36 AM Re: How important are breaking techniques in a fight? [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
cxt Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 5823
Loc: USA
TKD Fan

I'll take a shot. Could be wrong of course. smile

I think that breaking is good for teaching "some" things. But IMO breaking is more a DEMONSTRATION of the power you have developed than it helps you INCREASE power.

(and the precison, angle.......how dry the wood might be......how hot an oven you baked it in, how much sand you put in your cinder blocks, if you soaked them in water for a couple of days then put them in the freezer for a couple of days etc wink )

IMO breaking developes/increases little in the way of "power" as you use the term.

Breaking is essentially a STATIC activity----you have plenty of time to set yourself, pick the absolute best angle, apply the absolute "most" force you can.
If I could get an attacker to lay down across a couple of supports I could probably snap his spine.
You have none of those things in a fight.

Another reason is that as Lee said "boards don't hit back."
You might have a real problem breaking even one board IF it was bobbing and weaving around trying not to get hit. Even more so if it was trying to hit you at the same time.

That being said I went thu a period where I did a lot of breaking (relatively speaking) it was fun and as long as you do it right a largely harmless activity.

I think that it is good for teaching people to hit really WELL as in with the proper focus etc not just "hard" but very fast and multiple times. ie multiple breaks.

I do not and have never recommended people use their knuckles to break anything---IMO waaayyyy to easy to make an error and damage your knuckles...I like breaking with the plam heel though.
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#428415 - 07/18/10 03:37 PM Re: How important are breaking techniques in a fight? [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
I'm therefore wondering if anyone can explain to me why breaking techniques do not increase the hitting power that someone would have in a real fight.


Get someone to hold a board, not stiffly, but loosely, so that it moves upon contact from the strike. Also, allow the holder footwork to move in any way as they see fit to lessen the impact of any strike (circling, backwards on contact etc).

Given those parameters, nobody is breaking sh1t, no matter how much power is applied.

Breaking is a party trick. Hell, Rampage and Leben both destroyed fire-doors on TUF - its nothing to do with having more power than non breaking MAists, its just applying it to something that cannot dissipate or absorb the energy.

Big fat hairy deal.
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#428416 - 07/18/10 04:07 PM Re: How important are breaking techniques in a fight? [Re: Cord]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
Quote:
Get someone to hold a board, not stiffly, but loosely, so that it moves upon contact from the strike. Also, allow the holder footwork to move in any way as they see fit to lessen the impact of any strike (circling, backwards on contact etc).


Fair enough, but then, if we use a kicking bag, wouldn't that help us increase our punching power in a fight? Also, if we practice breaking on static objects, isn't that only because we practice one aspect at a time, namely, power hitting?

Thanks, both of you. I'm learning, but, as a bookworm, while I see your point, I like to point out possible counter-arguments. This way, I understand things better.

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#428420 - 07/18/10 07:08 PM Re: How important are breaking techniques in a fight? [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
"Hell, Rampage and Leben both destroyed fire-doors on TUF "

The only door I remember seeing Rampage destroy was that cheap little diddy to the dressing room that Dana White joked about Rampage showing how cheap their doors were.

VDJ

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#428422 - 07/18/10 09:36 PM Re: How important are breaking techniques in a fight? [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:
if we use a kicking bag, wouldn't that help us increase our punching power in a fight?


Yes, but the nice thing about a bag, is you can hit it again:)

The only thing I think breaking does, is test you against your ability to hit with perfect angle, and with the least area of impact. I think it's more of a mental positive re enforcement for a newer student, maybe a confidence builder.

But what I actually think it is, is a symbolic re-enactment of Okinawan lore, of great masters punching their way through walls with their great power. Or I've heard, to break the wooden armor of Japanese Soldiers To jar their heart and kill them in a single blow. Hmm one hit one kill anyone?

Truth is, almost everything at one time made sense and had purpose, including the dreaded "dead training". Breaking most likely was used when there was a particular reason to do it. Today, breaking pine boards and concrete slabs in ceremonial at best.

IMO
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#428423 - 07/19/10 12:26 AM Re: How important are breaking techniques in a fight? [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
Fair enough, but then, if we use a kicking bag, wouldn't that help us increase our punching power in a fight? Also, if we practice breaking on static objects, isn't that only because we practice one aspect at a time, namely, power hitting?


But in most examples of breaking that involve more than 1 hand held board, the break is delivered from above, with a verticle hammerfist, from a standing position, to a target surface at around waist height. The blow is also 'rehearsed' several times as the breaker makes mental preparation for 'the money shot'

This may be a usefull strike to commit to your central nervous system if you are likely to be attacked by a narcoleptic dwarf, but for any other circumstance, the biomechanics of the movement have no transfer to other ranges of movement, or strikes.
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Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#428425 - 07/19/10 01:37 AM Re: How important are breaking techniques in a fight? [Re: Cord]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
Quote:
But in most examples of breaking that involve more than 1 hand held board, the break is delivered from above, with a verticle hammerfist, from a standing position, to a target surface at around waist height. The blow is also 'rehearsed' several times as the breaker makes mental preparation for 'the money shot'


The same can be said about a kicking bag, except the bag is vertical, not horizontal.

Maybe I've never broken bricks, so I don't really understand.

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#428426 - 07/19/10 02:04 AM Re: How important are breaking techniques in a fight? [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
No, thats simply not true. Striking bags/pads allow you to actually practice techniques that you use in fighting. Striking a bag as a yielding, moving target, makes it more analogus of a human body than a plank of wood, held rigid and static, at waist height ready for you to muster all your effort in one single technique, that you would never, ever use in a live situation against a human being.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhWCM-2GPgw

The above is a great example, not because it fails, but because even if it had succeeded, what value would it have in martial application? It required a static, unresisting oponent to allow the striker to prepare and psyche himself up for 50 seconds. What oponent is going to let you do that?! Then you have the strike itself - when would you consider using that particular strike against a human being? Could you replicate those biomechanics whilst guarding your chin? or allowing for maintaining balance for follow ups or counters?
How many times could you hit someone if they went inactive and took their mind off reacting to you for 50 seconds? How many times would you need to hit them within that 50 second window of opportunity?





Edited by Cord (07/19/10 02:16 AM)
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Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#428433 - 07/19/10 10:11 AM Re: How important are breaking techniques in a fight? [Re: Cord]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
Ah, that makes sense. Now I see. Thanks for the education, all of you. smile

I think I will cut out breaking from my training, because I'm more interested in fighting techniques.


Edited by TaekwonDoFan (07/19/10 10:12 AM)

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