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#428360 - 07/16/10 05:50 PM UFC 117: Silva vs. Sonnen
MadPanda Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/02/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Raleigh, NC
Betting Odds:

Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen

Sportsbook Odds
* Silva (-500)
* Sonnen (+300)

Betus Odds
* Silva (-450)
* Sonnen (+325)

Jon Fitch vs. Thiago Alves

Sportbook Odds
* Fitch (-110)
* Alves (-120)

Junior Dos Santos vs. Roy Nelson
Too early to tell

Matt Hughes vs. Ricardo Almeida
Too early to tell

Clay Guida vs. Rafael Dos Anjos
Too early to tell

Thiago Silva vs. Tim Boetsch
Too early to tell


Main Card

* Middleweight Championship bout: Brazil Anderson Silva (c) vs. United States Chael Sonnen
* Welterweight bout: United States Jon Fitch vs. Brazil Thiago Alves
* Lightweight bout: United States Clay Guida vs. Brazil Rafael Dos Anjos
* Welterweight bout: United States Matt Hughes vs. Brazil Ricardo Almeida
* Heavyweight bout: United States Roy Nelson vs. Brazil Junior Dos Santos

Preliminary Card

* Light Heavyweight bout: Brazil Thiago Silva vs. United States Tim Boetsch
* Welterweight bout: United States Dustin Hazelett vs. United States Rick Story
* Heavyweight bout: Netherlands Stefan Struve vs. United States Christian Morecraft
* Welterweight bout: United States Johny Hendricks vs. United States Charlie Brenneman
* Welterweight bout: United States Ben Saunders vs. United States Dennis Hallman
* Light Heavyweight bout: United States Rodney Wallace vs. Bulgaria Stanislav Nedkov

My Predictions:

Anderson Silva (-500) vs. Chael Sonnen (+300) : Although often times disappointing, Anderson Silva knows the formula to defeat opponents, often by taking advantage of the UFC rules. As we witnessed in the Silva v Maia fight, Silva does not mind winning 3 rounds and then running for the remaining 2. He plays a purely defensive game, hardly ever engaging his opponent without them initializing it.

Dana White expressed his disgust and embarrassment after Silva defeated Maia with a less than impressive performance. He show boated, ran around in circles, and according to Dana White, made a jackass of himself.

"He [Silva] feels that he doesnít owe the fans an apology,Ē White noted. ĒYet, Iím apologizing. I didnít go in an fight like a jackass for five rounds. I didnít do what he did tonight, but Iím embarrassed.Ē

Despite his lackluster performances and strange antics, Silva has yet to be defeated in the UFC because he takes advantage of the rules and the fans. He makes a mockery of the sport; however, fighters have yet to teach him a lesson.

Winner: Anderson Silva

Jon Fitch vs. Thiago Alves

Winner: Thiago Alves

Junior Dos Santos vs. Roy Nelson

Winner: Junior Dos Santos

Clay Guida vs. Rafael Dos Anjos

Winner: Rafael Dos Anjos

I was planning on writing an explanation for each of my predictions; however, I have to go for a few hours so I decided to post what I have. Let the discussion begin on UFC 117, my predictions, your predictions, and anything else concerning this fight card.
_________________________
"Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence."
~ Mohandas Gandhi

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#428374 - 07/17/10 08:15 AM Re: UFC 117: Silva vs. Sonnen [Re: MadPanda]
MattJ Offline
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I think Anderson Silva takes it over Sonnen. I have Fitch over Alves. Dos Santos *should* beat Roy, but that's not a sure thing. I'm taking Guida over Dos Anjos.
_________________________
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#428377 - 07/17/10 02:20 PM Re: UFC 117: Silva vs. Sonnen [Re: MattJ]
VDJ Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1671
When does Dana White pitt Silva and GSP against each other? Thats the fight I want to see !

VDJ

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#428380 - 07/17/10 03:32 PM Re: UFC 117: Silva vs. Sonnen [Re: VDJ]
MadPanda Offline
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Registered: 07/02/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Raleigh, NC
Originally Posted By: VDJ
When does Dana White pitt Silva and GSP against each other? Thats the fight I want to see !

VDJ


Dana White has been quoted saying that Silva does not deserve to fight GSP because he is such a jackass lol. No joke
_________________________
"Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence."
~ Mohandas Gandhi

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#428383 - 07/17/10 05:59 PM Re: UFC 117: Silva vs. Sonnen [Re: MadPanda]
VDJ Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1671
I haven't heard that (not saying he hasn't said it). Say what you want about Silva but the guy is hard to hit. He has some of the best head movement I have ever seen aqnd he has beaten people who have beaten GSP, He deserves to fight him! And he is no where near the jackass the Lesnar is, not that Lesnar doesen't deserve respect after his win against Corwin, he does, but he's awful arrogant!

VDJ

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#428385 - 07/17/10 07:03 PM Re: UFC 117: Silva vs. Sonnen [Re: VDJ]
MattJ Offline
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Hmmm.....after what Silva did to Demian Maia, I'm not sure Silva isn't more of a jackass than Lesnar. GSP vs. Silva would be an exciting fight, but I fear for GSP. Silva is much taller, and almost certainly the better striker. Silva is also no joke on the ground - he tooled both Nate Marquardt and Dan Henderson.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#428386 - 07/17/10 07:50 PM Re: UFC 117: Silva vs. Sonnen [Re: MattJ]
MadPanda Offline
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Registered: 07/02/10
Posts: 23
Loc: Raleigh, NC
At least Lesnar pursues his opponents and defeats them though. Silva takes advantage of the rules and he wins the majority of the rounds and then runs for the rest. He never pushes the action and makes the sport look like a joke with his constant dancing and taunting, he dances more than he fights.



Edited by MadPanda (07/17/10 07:55 PM)
_________________________
"Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence."
~ Mohandas Gandhi

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#428406 - 07/18/10 11:53 AM Re: UFC 117: Silva vs. Sonnen [Re: MadPanda]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
I like Anderson Silva. Even though he has some bizarre performances, he is undoubtedly one of the greatest mixed martial artists of all time who has the ability to make cage fighting look beautiful. His knockout of Forrest Griffin is one of those fights that I watch every time I get too confident in my own skills, it is simply incredible.

Chael Sonnen talks a lot, but is coming in to the bout a serious underdog with a gameplan that everybody can see a mile off. His only chance to win the fight is to take down Silva and stay on top suffocatingly for 25 minutes. While I'm sure Sonnen's fitness is up to it, and he's done it many times before against quality opponents, I think he will not manage it against Silva, who has a very offensive guard and long legs that he uses well to control his opponents. It is very difficult to grapple effectively against Silva, as the second Rich Franklin fight showed, as well as with grapplers like Leites and Maia. Silva has also been training with Lyoto Machida, who has some great tricks to stop takedowns.

I predict Silva will win by triangle. (Damn, talk about setting oneself up for a fall lol)

Fitch-Alves is a great matchup that got nixed because of Alves' problems. I think Fitch will put on another of his great performances, getting takedowns and getting out of the majority of the hairy exchanges with Alves. Once on the mat, Fitch is an animal, and will tire out Alves, who has had problems with weight in the past, and will not be able to deal with Fitch's control. Of course, Alves might just land a big shot and end the fight, but I really like Fitch and think he gets wrongly maligned for being boring.

Apart from that, I'm really looking forward to the Guida fight. Dos Anjos better come in with a serious game plan, because if you don't control the pace of the fight with Guida, you will simply get overwhelmed. I love watching him fight, because he understands how to hang on guys and give people absolutely no space. It is really a lesson in how to control guys on the ground.

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#428419 - 07/18/10 07:02 PM Re: UFC 117: Silva vs. Sonnen [Re: MadPanda]
VDJ Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1671
Originally Posted By: MadPanda
At least Lesnar pursues his opponents and defeats them though. Silva takes advantage of the rules and he wins the majority of the rounds and then runs for the rest. He never pushes the action and makes the sport look like a joke with his constant dancing and taunting, he dances more than he fights.



Some call it "Using the rules to his advantage", others call it "Strategy". Muhammed Ali danced alot too and and stood against a rope taking shots until his opponent wore himself out and then took advantage of their fatigue he earned the title "The Greatest" with this strategy, not very exciting but effective.Fact is Silva still has the belt!

VDJ

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#428465 - 07/22/10 08:09 AM Re: UFC 117: Silva vs. Sonnen [Re: VDJ]
Kathryn Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Washington, DC
I'm also taking Silva on this one.

I think it's funny that the main criticism against him is that he 'uses the rules' to win fights. Well, back when UFC had no rules, there was an outcry to get rules. Now you have them, and a thinking fighter is going to use them!

Kathryn
_________________________
Be nice, until it's time to not be nice.

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#428467 - 07/22/10 08:37 AM Re: UFC 117: Silva vs. Sonnen [Re: Kathryn]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Heh, I think the critcisms of Silva are coming more from his apparent disrespect in the cage for his opponents, than from his use of the rules. GSP uses the rules, but manages to do so without ridiculing his opponents.

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#428480 - 07/22/10 01:12 PM Re: UFC 117: Silva vs. Sonnen [Re: MattJ]
Kathryn Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Washington, DC
Originally Posted By: MattJ
Heh, I think the critcisms of Silva are coming more from his apparent disrespect in the cage for his opponents, than from his use of the rules. GSP uses the rules, but manages to do so without ridiculing his opponents.


Yes, rather interesting that they managed to come up with a set of rules that rivals the NFL for sheer legalism, but somehow managed to leave out the ones about general manners in the cage. Seems like they understand their market pretty well.
grin

Kathryn

_________________________
Be nice, until it's time to not be nice.

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#428498 - 07/22/10 06:28 PM Re: UFC 117: Silva vs. Sonnen [Re: Kathryn]
Dereck Offline
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Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
One thing that I have always respected about MMA is how they treat each other; a camaraderie of a sort. Many none MMA watchers also have noticed this such as my wife. With Silva's last fight that went out the window and gives MMA a bad name. Add in Strikeforce's after fight "fight" in the ring and the Paul Dailey late punch, this is not all helping MMA.

Nobody doubt's Silva's skills, if you do you pay. But you don't need to be an arrogant a$$ either. He could take some tips from GSP.

I want Sonnen to whoop his a$$ but that probably won't be the case. Plus Sonnen has got the mouth on him too; a perfect match. The mouth against the show boating a$$.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#428516 - 07/23/10 08:37 AM Re: UFC 117: Silva vs. Sonnen [Re: Dereck]
Kathryn Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Washington, DC
Originally Posted By: Dereck
One thing that I have always respected about MMA is how they treat each other; a camaraderie of a sort. Many none MMA watchers also have noticed this such as my wife. With Silva's last fight that went out the window and gives MMA a bad name. Add in Strikeforce's after fight "fight" in the ring and the Paul Dailey late punch, this is not all helping MMA.
<snip text>


Dereck, I understand your position on this. I watch UFC fights with a large public group, and it didn't take long to notice that they really enjoy this aspect of it. As the sport has become more mainstream it is playing to the desire for some showboating and trash talking.

I personally don't think that it will cause harm to the sport, but I don't expect to see dojo levels of courtesy in the octagon either.

Kathryn
_________________________
Be nice, until it's time to not be nice.

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#428579 - 07/25/10 01:19 AM Re: UFC 117: Silva vs. Sonnen [Re: Kathryn]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
They both are a$$es but I want Sonnen to win for the simple reason he's from my neck of the woods. A buddy of mine has actually met the guy. Oregon needs more champs.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#428946 - 08/08/10 08:05 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Stormdragon]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1671
O.K. Now, no more if,ands or buts. Andersen Silva PROVES he knows how to win! It was a GREAT fight and kudos definitely goes to Sonnen, but after 5 and a half rounds of getting his but whooped, the spider digs deep and comes out on top. Looking forward to that rematch! I'm surprised nobody has posted anything about it yet!

VDJ


Edited by Cord (08/09/10 03:42 AM)

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#428947 - 08/09/10 03:45 AM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: VDJ]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
well, having worked over the weekend, I was looking forward to catching up with it on my tivo this morning. Not much point now though frown

Please put 'spoiler' in your subject line in future dude, its the thoughtful thing to do.
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Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#428948 - 08/09/10 05:41 AM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Cord]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
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Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Cord was right on with his prediction. Crazy. I'm saddened by Sonnen's loss but at least he gave Silva the beating he's been really needing for awhile Sonnen is clearly the better overall fighter, but sh$t happens. You can never be too careful. Silva notices the smallest possible openings and doesn't hesitate to jump on them and doesn't stop trying till it's said and done. Pretty tough.
_________________________
Member of DaJoGen MMA school under Dave Hagen and Team Chaos fight team under Denver Mangiyatan and Chris Toquero, ran out of Zanshin Martial Arts in Salem Oregon: http://www.zanshinarts.org/Home.aspx,

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#428950 - 08/09/10 08:36 AM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Stormdragon]
VDJ Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1671
Originally Posted By: Stormdragon
Cord was right on with his prediction. Crazy. I'm saddened by Sonnen's loss but at least he gave Silva the beating he's been really needing for awhile Sonnen is clearly the better overall fighter, but sh$t happens. You can never be too careful. Silva notices the smallest possible openings and doesn't hesitate to jump on them and doesn't stop trying till it's said and done. Pretty tough.


How can you say that Sonnen is "CLEARLY" the overall better fighter when he lost? Its not like it went to the judges card,submissions have been a hole in his game for sometime now and he hasn't fixed it yet! To me thats part of the overall game, quite the contrary here, Silva is getting whopped upon and HE finds the way to win!

VDJ

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#428951 - 08/09/10 09:47 AM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: VDJ]
MattJ Offline
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Great fight for Sonnen, but an incredible win for Silva. This was a comeback for the ages, Lesnar or Fedor-esque. Sonnen did a fantastic job, totally backing up all his pre-fight trash talk with some incredible takedowns. He put Silva down, and kept him there. I can't remember ever seeing Silva being dominated like that.

That said, Silva did an equally masterful job of avoiding serious damage, and snuck in a triangle choke in the tiniest window of opportunity possible.

Anderson showed why he is the champ.

I would be interested in seeing a rematch, though. Not clear to me that Silva could do that again.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#428952 - 08/09/10 10:31 AM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: MattJ]
Kimo2007 Offline
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Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
I didn't see the fight, I was able to hear the last round online only. So did Silva just take Sonnen to lightly and Sonnen had the night of his life, or did they both come to fight?

Is Sonnen Joe Frazier or Leon Spinks?
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#428953 - 08/09/10 10:37 AM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Kimo2007]
Dereck Offline
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The whole card was good, though the Fitch's fight was a little boring but a good fight for Fitch none the less. Wasn't sure about Sonnen's trash talking but it was entertaining to say the least. And his fight, incredibly impressive; I am a believer. Sadly he lost due to perhaps being tired and making a simple mistake. He was busier then anybody I have seen. His wrestling is very impressive especially that reversal. Watch this video, he still a little trashy but has class. Props to Sonnen ... HE BROUGHT IT.

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/256013/UFC-117-Press-Conference-Highlights/
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#428955 - 08/09/10 11:52 AM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: MattJ]
TeK9 Offline
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Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Sonnen brought it, he backed up all that he said. But in the end just like his other major competitions he came in second place. He can talk the talk and bring it but he cant win it. In the end Silva dug deep and showed once again why jui-jistu is so vital. Just like the late great Helio Gracie said, "Jui-jitsu is not about winning a fight quickly. It is about outlasting the bigger and stronger opponent and surviving." Which is what Silva did.

Sonnen said, "to me having a black belt under the Nogueria brothers is like me finding a toy in my happy meal."

At the end of the fight Silva put on his BJJ Gi, thanked his coaches his sparring partners and last but not least called out Nogueria brother's Jui-jitsu. Something I never heard him say before. Usually he just thanks the brothers individually but never say's their school name.

That being said I was very impressed with Sonnen's adaptation of pure wrestling by not using the hooks while he had Silva's back aloud him to maintain top position should Silva try to roll out or attempt a sweep.
_________________________
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does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
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#428957 - 08/09/10 12:16 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: TeK9]
Supremor Offline
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Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Poor old Sonnen, he did everything he could to beat Silva, and was well on his way to winning, then got triangled by a bit of a hail mary, although Silva was setting it up for a good minute before he sunk it in. I guess no one saw that triangle coming(teehee!).

I think Sonnen's problem are basically 2-fold. Firstly, bad submission defence that has been obvious in all of his UFC losses- Filho, Maia, Silva. Secondly, Sonnen is not a finisher. He possesses the tools to beat up fighters and grind them out, but cannot stop fighters. I mean, he has literally zero tko/submission victories in the UFC! Against guys like Silva, who only need a small window to finish, Sonnen has to fight flawlessly. Apparently being infallible is pretty difficult over 25 minutes.

Great to see Fitch get a win. Alves looked like the weight cut had drained him a lot, and there wasn't much snap in his stand-up. Some people are talking about going up to 185, but I think he should just lose some weight and continue fighting at 170. He has an awful lot of muscle, and could lose some of it without seriously impairing his game. At 185 he doesn't have the reach to be as successful a striker, and will have a lot more trouble defending takedowns.

Junior Dos Santos was very impressive too. I've seen him a couple of times, but he always flew under the radar for me, since beating Gilbert Ivel is no sign of greatness to me. But his boxing is great, and he showed a good chin and the ability to keep going despite basically punching himself out in the first. Against Velasquez or Lesnar he may have his hands full though. I can't see him staying upright against Velasquez for very long, and his only chance will be to land a big shot in the small window he has.

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#428960 - 08/09/10 03:06 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: TeK9]
Dereck Offline
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Originally Posted By: TeK9
Sonnen brought it, he backed up all that he said. But in the end just like his other major competitions he came in second place. He can talk the talk and bring it but he cant win it. In the end Silva dug deep and showed once again why jui-jistu is so vital. Just like the late great Helio Gracie said, "Jui-jitsu is not about winning a fight quickly. It is about outlasting the bigger and stronger opponent and surviving." Which is what Silva did.


I disagree. If this was just a fight with Anderson Silva and not a belt match, with 3 rounds Silva would have lost and lost horribly. But this was championship rounds and I'm sure Sonnen was tired, and yes it was a hail-may by Silva because Sonnen defending all previous attempts by Silva. Sonnen reversed moves and DOMINATED the fight up until he made a mistake.

If you pay attention to the Underground or other MMA sites, you will see numerous discussions that Wrestling is now the best foundation to have in MMA today; not BJJ. You still have to know BJJ but Wrestling is proving to be a far better foundation. Just look how many fighters are successful with this, they are some of the top people in MMA today.

If Sonnen would have been a BJJ guy and not a Wrestler, this match would have ended earlier; it is only because of his Wrestling he did so well. And BJJ against a BJJ, one will eventually make a mistake and the other will capitalize on it, no different then Silva did with Sonnen. It had nothing to do with BJJ, it was simply the 5th round, it was because of being tired and keep as busy as he had from the beginning of the fight, and because of making a mistake ... nothing more. Not taking anything away from Silva because for him to being controlled and losing for over 4.5 rounds of the fight and still to pull off that move, that is definitely skill. But not for once do I attribute this to more then what it was, a mistake. A mistake that numerous of people have done and will do regardless of art learned.

Props to Sonnen big time. He handled Silva easily. He kept busy the whole time. He would have won but made a mistake that cost him. He was tired, you could see it in his eyes. The amount of skill and energy he had to keep Silva down was incredible. From my own grappling/wrestling experience, I always found it harder to keep the top position then to fight from my back. More energy is needed to stay on top then to be on the bottom. Sonnen earned my respect big time. I'm still not a Silva fan but will take nothing away from him.
_________________________
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#428962 - 08/09/10 03:24 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Dereck]
Kathryn Offline
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Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Washington, DC
This match was a true endurance test for the audience. I have a sore throat from yelling at Silva to get off the mat! But one thing I found very interesting about this match was that for the thousand or so punches that Sonnen gave, there were no significant marks on Silva's face. He got punch drunk and a bit swoellen. Every hit that Silva gave back drew blood on Sonnen.

Kathryn
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Be nice, until it's time to not be nice.

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#428963 - 08/09/10 04:38 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Kathryn]
MattJ Offline
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Yeah, I have to agree with Dereck about wrestling as the base to have. It appears that wrestlers with a modicum of BJJ training can generally tool pure BJJ guys, as much as it pains me to say that (being a semi-BJJ guy). Check the Hughes/Almeida match for further proof.

That said, Silva bucked that trend with Sonnen, albeit barely. Give it up for BJJ in this case.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#428965 - 08/09/10 04:48 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: MattJ]
VDJ Offline
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Or can we stick with the old adage "It's not the dog in the fight, its the fight in the dog"!

VDJ

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#428966 - 08/09/10 05:20 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: VDJ]
Dereck Offline
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Definitely the dog in the fight does ring true but a dog with a good base will always do better then a dog without.

Originally Posted By: Kathryn
But one thing I found very interesting about this match was that for the thousand or so punches that Sonnen gave, there were no significant marks on Silva's face. He got punch drunk and a bit swoellen. Every hit that Silva gave back drew blood on Sonnen.


White people seem to bleed more then others. Perhaps not as tough skin, who knows for sure but perhaps somebody with a medical background can explain it better. But bleeding is never a sign of who wins, not by a long shot. GSP, Sean Sherk, Forrest Griffin, Keith Jardine and many others easily bleed. One of the worst was the late Evan Tanner. It is like bruising. I bruise but it takes sometimes a lot but my wife, she walks into something whether she knows it or not, big bruise. And I've met some in my training that never bleed or bruise even when taking a beating; I always had battle scars.

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#428967 - 08/09/10 05:35 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Dereck]
MattJ Offline
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Heh, I'm not sure that white people bleed more than others, but I do know that elbows will cut the bejesus out of anyone. That's how Silva cut Sonnen, with the elbows from underneath.

I think guys that have been cut before (like Sonnen, Marcus Davis, Sherk, Griffin, etc) are more easily cut because of all the scar tissue they already have. Silva is good about not getting hit, so he doesn't cut as easily.

*disclaimer - MattJ is not a doctor, he just plays one on the internets


Edited by MattJ (08/09/10 05:36 PM)
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#428968 - 08/09/10 05:48 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: MattJ]
Dereck Offline
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grin

All true Matt, especially in cases such as Marcus Davis who had plastic surgery to help with this. However it seems some races are less likely to cut even when hit with the same blow.
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#428969 - 08/09/10 06:11 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: VDJ]
Stormdragon Offline
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Originally Posted By: VDJ
Originally Posted By: Stormdragon
Cord was right on with his prediction. Crazy. I'm saddened by Sonnen's loss but at least he gave Silva the beating he's been really needing for awhile Sonnen is clearly the better overall fighter, but sh$t happens. You can never be too careful. Silva notices the smallest possible openings and doesn't hesitate to jump on them and doesn't stop trying till it's said and done. Pretty tough.


How can you say that Sonnen is "CLEARLY" the overall better fighter when he lost? Its not like it went to the judges card,submissions have been a hole in his game for sometime now and he hasn't fixed it yet! To me thats part of the overall game, quite the contrary here, Silva is getting whopped upon and HE finds the way to win!

VDJ



He has much better striking and wrestling, and he did more damage. That makes him overall better. Todd Duffee is obviously much better than Mike Russow, who won with a lucky shot in the end. Note I said OVERALL, not better in every way possible. Winning doesn't necessairly make you better, lucky shots happen and sometimes guys get a sense of false security as they're storming through a guy and then get caught.
It's called a punchers chance. In the case of Sonnen vs. Silva I guess you'd called it a submission's chance. If it had been close on points and then SIlva sunk in that triangle then yeah you could say he's better.


Edited by Stormdragon (08/09/10 06:18 PM)
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#428970 - 08/09/10 10:55 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Stormdragon]
Cord Offline
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To answer/comment on a few points raised in this thread:

It was Supremor who made the freaky prediction, not me.

Sonnen is the first oponent to fight Silva the man, not Silva the reputation for a long time, and he did an outstanding job, outclassing Silva for 23 of 24 minutes. Loved the ear slaps, the Gn'P combos, and the workrate. The guy is a machine.

It is worth noting though, just how durable and calm under pressure Silva proved to be when tested, and also how much damage he was able to inflict with short elbow shots from a closed guard. When it came to bang for the buck, Silva was impressive.

Kathryn brought up her reservations regarding the nature of the fanbase of UFC events, but it was interesting to note that during the entrances, Silva was greeted positively, despite recent fight performance, whilst Sonnen, the 'home' fighter, was booed and heckled. This would indicate that there is still an appreciation of respect over trash talk inherent in the crowd dynamic of MMA.

I do however feel that Sonnen is right about Silva's habit of kneeling in suplication at the feet of the guy he has just beat - it comes off as OTT, self serving, and disengenuous. A hug, a bow, a shake of the hands is all very well, but dont go all Yakuza, its embarassing.

On the whole 'Wrastlin' or BJJ' debate, its as retarded as any art v art argument, but I would say that a fighter who can combine wrestlings top control and positional awareness, with BJJ's comfort on the back, and eye for a submission, will be a very complete ground fighter.

Oh, and I also think Matt Hughes was completely robbed of submission of the night. That was some crazy sh1t, and i am delighted to see him looking refreshed, strong and back in the game.
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#428972 - 08/10/10 07:15 AM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Cord]
MattJ Offline
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Both Matt Hughes and Anderson Silva got submission of the night bonuses ($60K). It would have indeed been a crime if Hughes did not get it.
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#428974 - 08/10/10 08:04 AM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: MattJ]
Cord Offline
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Good smile That must have been decided after the broadcast, as they only announced the Silva submission at the end of the show.

I know a lot of people didnt like Matt Hughes as a trainer on the Ultimate staged Soap Opera, but goddamn he looked fantastic in his comeback fight. Great left hook, and seriously, I think that was my favourite submission since the the crucifix beatdowns in the 90's cool
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#428979 - 08/10/10 08:47 AM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Cord]
Kathryn Offline
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Originally Posted By: Cord
<snip>
Kathryn brought up her reservations regarding the nature of the fanbase of UFC events, but it was interesting to note that during the entrances, Silva was greeted positively, despite recent fight performance, whilst Sonnen, the 'home' fighter, was booed and heckled. This would indicate that there is still an appreciation of respect over trash talk inherent in the crowd dynamic of MMA.


It's not something I'm necessarily proud of, but it's a lot of fun being part of the roman mob for these fight nights. One of my UFC watching buddies is an MA teacher, and he likes to tease me about not acting proper. But when fight night is over, we all go back to our more proper and polite lives.

Kathryn
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#428983 - 08/10/10 11:33 AM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Dereck]
Dereck Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dereck
Definitely the dog in the fight does ring true but a dog with a good base will always do better then a dog without.

Originally Posted By: Kathryn
But one thing I found very interesting about this match was that for the thousand or so punches that Sonnen gave, there were no significant marks on Silva's face. He got punch drunk and a bit swoellen. Every hit that Silva gave back drew blood on Sonnen.


White people seem to bleed more then others. Perhaps not as tough skin, who knows for sure but perhaps somebody with a medical background can explain it better. But bleeding is never a sign of who wins, not by a long shot. GSP, Sean Sherk, Forrest Griffin, Keith Jardine and many others easily bleed. One of the worst was the late Evan Tanner. It is like bruising. I bruise but it takes sometimes a lot but my wife, she walks into something whether she knows it or not, big bruise. And I've met some in my training that never bleed or bruise even when taking a beating; I always had battle scars.



I was reading the suspension list from the UFC 117 that gets published. Here are the Sonnen/Silva results.

- Anderson Silva; 180 day suspension; must be cleared by physician and x-ray; rib fracture

- Anderson Silva; indefinite; must clear neurological and CT head scan

- Chael Sonnen; 60 day suspension or cleared by physician, 60 days no contact; facial lacerations

While they did disclose after that fight that Silva had some issues with his ribs prior, it probably didn't help that Sonnen was dominate in the ground 'n pound and batter them even more. But also getting hit that many times from standing to the ground to his head, CT required.
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#429196 - 08/18/10 06:54 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Dereck]
Neko456 Offline
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The one thing different in contact sports then in a real fight its not how long you beat someone or how quickly you try to end the fight. It's who in the end won the fight. The thought is "A Win is a win". Especially by KO or Submission this was not a decision.

I think we have learned or began to expect too much from the Champ you are not going to steam roll ever body or KO everyone, some times on a good night you TKO them or make them quit. These two great fighters it became a war of will and Silva found a way to win. We can say Sonnen made a mistake or Silva fought him until he got exhausted and he was forced into the spider's choke.
He certainly didn't give it to him.


In the end a Win is a win. Sonnen impressed a lot of people even me but he lost. Doesn't matter who went to the hospital, it matters who retained the belt.

Anderson is a winner. Sonnen is a tough ass fighter that somme day will be a Champion, but not this night he fought Anderson Silva.


Edited by Neko456 (08/18/10 07:02 PM)
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#430028 - 09/19/10 01:50 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Neko456]
Supremor Offline
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Oopsy... Guess that rematch isn't such a sure-fire thing.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/CSAC-Sonnen-Positive-for-PEDs-at-UFC-117-26978

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#430052 - 09/20/10 09:22 AM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Supremor]
Dereck Offline
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I'm going to wait to hear what Sonnen says before I write him off. If he took $hit I think he'll come clean; just seems that type of guy.
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#430522 - 10/18/10 07:01 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Dereck]
Neko456 Offline
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Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Originally Posted By: Dereck
I'm going to wait to hear what Sonnen says before I write him off. If he took $hit I think he'll come clean; just seems that type of guy.



456 - If he was such an up-standing guy would he use shiz to win a fight? Thats against the rules and of course he is going to deny it. Now it could be somethimg he eat that showing up in his [censored] test or blood. Poppy seed on a bagel is bad news in these type test but are not illegal. Performance enhancement drugs are not seed related. Whatever it was it made him fight like a monster machine.

But this really only enhances the legend of Andersen Silva even drugged/hyped up it was not enough he still lost by submission to the champ!!!
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