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#428968 - 08/09/10 05:48 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: MattJ]
Dereck Offline
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Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
grin

All true Matt, especially in cases such as Marcus Davis who had plastic surgery to help with this. However it seems some races are less likely to cut even when hit with the same blow.
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#428969 - 08/09/10 06:11 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: VDJ]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Originally Posted By: VDJ
Originally Posted By: Stormdragon
Cord was right on with his prediction. Crazy. I'm saddened by Sonnen's loss but at least he gave Silva the beating he's been really needing for awhile Sonnen is clearly the better overall fighter, but sh$t happens. You can never be too careful. Silva notices the smallest possible openings and doesn't hesitate to jump on them and doesn't stop trying till it's said and done. Pretty tough.


How can you say that Sonnen is "CLEARLY" the overall better fighter when he lost? Its not like it went to the judges card,submissions have been a hole in his game for sometime now and he hasn't fixed it yet! To me thats part of the overall game, quite the contrary here, Silva is getting whopped upon and HE finds the way to win!

VDJ



He has much better striking and wrestling, and he did more damage. That makes him overall better. Todd Duffee is obviously much better than Mike Russow, who won with a lucky shot in the end. Note I said OVERALL, not better in every way possible. Winning doesn't necessairly make you better, lucky shots happen and sometimes guys get a sense of false security as they're storming through a guy and then get caught.
It's called a punchers chance. In the case of Sonnen vs. Silva I guess you'd called it a submission's chance. If it had been close on points and then SIlva sunk in that triangle then yeah you could say he's better.


Edited by Stormdragon (08/09/10 06:18 PM)
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#428970 - 08/09/10 10:55 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Stormdragon]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
To answer/comment on a few points raised in this thread:

It was Supremor who made the freaky prediction, not me.

Sonnen is the first oponent to fight Silva the man, not Silva the reputation for a long time, and he did an outstanding job, outclassing Silva for 23 of 24 minutes. Loved the ear slaps, the Gn'P combos, and the workrate. The guy is a machine.

It is worth noting though, just how durable and calm under pressure Silva proved to be when tested, and also how much damage he was able to inflict with short elbow shots from a closed guard. When it came to bang for the buck, Silva was impressive.

Kathryn brought up her reservations regarding the nature of the fanbase of UFC events, but it was interesting to note that during the entrances, Silva was greeted positively, despite recent fight performance, whilst Sonnen, the 'home' fighter, was booed and heckled. This would indicate that there is still an appreciation of respect over trash talk inherent in the crowd dynamic of MMA.

I do however feel that Sonnen is right about Silva's habit of kneeling in suplication at the feet of the guy he has just beat - it comes off as OTT, self serving, and disengenuous. A hug, a bow, a shake of the hands is all very well, but dont go all Yakuza, its embarassing.

On the whole 'Wrastlin' or BJJ' debate, its as retarded as any art v art argument, but I would say that a fighter who can combine wrestlings top control and positional awareness, with BJJ's comfort on the back, and eye for a submission, will be a very complete ground fighter.

Oh, and I also think Matt Hughes was completely robbed of submission of the night. That was some crazy sh1t, and i am delighted to see him looking refreshed, strong and back in the game.
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#428972 - 08/10/10 07:15 AM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Cord]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Loc: York PA. USA
Both Matt Hughes and Anderson Silva got submission of the night bonuses ($60K). It would have indeed been a crime if Hughes did not get it.
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#428974 - 08/10/10 08:04 AM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: MattJ]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Good smile That must have been decided after the broadcast, as they only announced the Silva submission at the end of the show.

I know a lot of people didnt like Matt Hughes as a trainer on the Ultimate staged Soap Opera, but goddamn he looked fantastic in his comeback fight. Great left hook, and seriously, I think that was my favourite submission since the the crucifix beatdowns in the 90's cool
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Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#428979 - 08/10/10 08:47 AM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Cord]
Kathryn Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Washington, DC
Originally Posted By: Cord
<snip>
Kathryn brought up her reservations regarding the nature of the fanbase of UFC events, but it was interesting to note that during the entrances, Silva was greeted positively, despite recent fight performance, whilst Sonnen, the 'home' fighter, was booed and heckled. This would indicate that there is still an appreciation of respect over trash talk inherent in the crowd dynamic of MMA.


It's not something I'm necessarily proud of, but it's a lot of fun being part of the roman mob for these fight nights. One of my UFC watching buddies is an MA teacher, and he likes to tease me about not acting proper. But when fight night is over, we all go back to our more proper and polite lives.

Kathryn
_________________________
Be nice, until it's time to not be nice.

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#428983 - 08/10/10 11:33 AM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Dereck]
Dereck Offline
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Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Originally Posted By: Dereck
Definitely the dog in the fight does ring true but a dog with a good base will always do better then a dog without.

Originally Posted By: Kathryn
But one thing I found very interesting about this match was that for the thousand or so punches that Sonnen gave, there were no significant marks on Silva's face. He got punch drunk and a bit swoellen. Every hit that Silva gave back drew blood on Sonnen.


White people seem to bleed more then others. Perhaps not as tough skin, who knows for sure but perhaps somebody with a medical background can explain it better. But bleeding is never a sign of who wins, not by a long shot. GSP, Sean Sherk, Forrest Griffin, Keith Jardine and many others easily bleed. One of the worst was the late Evan Tanner. It is like bruising. I bruise but it takes sometimes a lot but my wife, she walks into something whether she knows it or not, big bruise. And I've met some in my training that never bleed or bruise even when taking a beating; I always had battle scars.



I was reading the suspension list from the UFC 117 that gets published. Here are the Sonnen/Silva results.

- Anderson Silva; 180 day suspension; must be cleared by physician and x-ray; rib fracture

- Anderson Silva; indefinite; must clear neurological and CT head scan

- Chael Sonnen; 60 day suspension or cleared by physician, 60 days no contact; facial lacerations

While they did disclose after that fight that Silva had some issues with his ribs prior, it probably didn't help that Sonnen was dominate in the ground 'n pound and batter them even more. But also getting hit that many times from standing to the ground to his head, CT required.
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#429196 - 08/18/10 06:54 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Dereck]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
The one thing different in contact sports then in a real fight its not how long you beat someone or how quickly you try to end the fight. It's who in the end won the fight. The thought is "A Win is a win". Especially by KO or Submission this was not a decision.

I think we have learned or began to expect too much from the Champ you are not going to steam roll ever body or KO everyone, some times on a good night you TKO them or make them quit. These two great fighters it became a war of will and Silva found a way to win. We can say Sonnen made a mistake or Silva fought him until he got exhausted and he was forced into the spider's choke.
He certainly didn't give it to him.


In the end a Win is a win. Sonnen impressed a lot of people even me but he lost. Doesn't matter who went to the hospital, it matters who retained the belt.

Anderson is a winner. Sonnen is a tough ass fighter that somme day will be a Champion, but not this night he fought Anderson Silva.


Edited by Neko456 (08/18/10 07:02 PM)
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#430028 - 09/19/10 01:50 PM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Neko456]
Supremor Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Oopsy... Guess that rematch isn't such a sure-fire thing.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/CSAC-Sonnen-Positive-for-PEDs-at-UFC-117-26978

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#430052 - 09/20/10 09:22 AM Re: Silva vs. Sonnen (SPOILER) [Re: Supremor]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
I'm going to wait to hear what Sonnen says before I write him off. If he took $hit I think he'll come clean; just seems that type of guy.
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