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#427968 - 06/27/10 10:30 AM Striking/punching bag technique.
MAGon Offline
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Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Not ever having boxed, I learned to hit the speed/punching bag by watching other Karate-kas. The people I learned from would hit the bag with almost unmodified Karate punches, thrown from a guard covering the head down to the rib cage. The only differences was that these would be "lighter", with no all- out muscle contraction and force, as well as somewhat shortened. This made sense to me, in that if the purpose of the exercise is to speed up a particular movement, one needs to practice that very same movement repeatedly and at speed.
Now, watching footage of boxers in training, the way they "punch" the bag leaves me scratching my head. What I've repeatedly seen boxers do is raise their elbows to where they're practically level with their fists, then stike the bag in what I can only describe as a sort of horizontal hammer fist (tetsui). Also, the striking point seems to the edge of the fist closer to the pinky knuckle, instead of the knuckles themselves.
So here's my question: Is there some counter-intuitive reason why the way boxers do it is more effective in developing hand speed for real world strikes than just hitting the darn bag the way you'd hit an opponent in the first place? confused
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#427969 - 06/27/10 11:00 AM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: MAGon]
sstefan Offline
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Registered: 06/26/10
Posts: 22
Conditioning, conditioning and again conditioning. Another reason is that they focus only on punching techniques and train them all day. They don't waist the time punching air by doing katas.
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#427970 - 06/27/10 11:35 AM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: sstefan]
MattJ Offline
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Miguel, I'm assuming you're talking about how boxers hit the speed bag? Yeah, I have no idea about that, either. I've heard it's more of a shoulder conditioning exercise than anything directly related to punching technique, but I don't really see the point, myself.

Plyometric rebounding (ie; retracting strikes quickly off the target) seems to have helped my speed a lot.

I don't consider speed-bag training very useful.
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#427972 - 06/27/10 12:11 PM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: MattJ]
MAGon Offline
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Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Originally Posted By: MattJ
Miguel, I'm assuming you're talking about how boxers hit the speed bag?


Yup, exactly.

Originally Posted By: MattJ
I've heard it's more of a shoulder conditioning exercise than anything directly related to punching technique,...


Huh???

Originally Posted By: MattJ
...but I don't really see the point, myself.


If so, I'd also be of the opinion that it's a waste of time. There are much better ways to condition the shoulders, and IMO it does nothing useful for one's punching.

Originally Posted By: MattJ
I don't consider speed-bag training very useful.


In isolation, perhaps. Combined with other bag work (double-ended bag, heavy bag) IMO it's very good indeed in developing speed and coordination, PROVIDED you're punching in a rational manner.
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#427974 - 06/27/10 12:20 PM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: sstefan]
MAGon Offline
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Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Originally Posted By: sstefan
Conditioning, conditioning and again conditioning. Another reason is that they focus only on punching techniques and train them all day. They don't waist the time punching air by doing katas.


Yeah, but what's the point of that particular method? There are better ways of conditioning than that.
As to kata, I don't think much of them either (The traditional ones, that is. Enshin-ryu's and the ones you see in some Ashihara dojos are a different kettle of fish), so you get no argument from me. But as to punching air, boxers do quite a bit of (And swear by) shadow boxing. That's air punching at it's finest!
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#427980 - 06/27/10 01:03 PM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: MattJ]
sstefan Offline
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Registered: 06/26/10
Posts: 22
Originally Posted By: MattJ
Miguel, I'm assuming you're talking about how boxers hit the speed bag? Yeah, I have no idea about that, either. I've heard it's more of a shoulder conditioning exercise than anything directly related to punching technique, but I don't really see the point, myself.

Plyometric rebounding (ie; retracting strikes quickly off the target) seems to have helped my speed a lot.

I don't consider speed-bag training very useful.


Speed bag improves striking precision and ofcourse speed punching, in my opinion the speed bag training is useful. The heavy bag is stationary while the speed bag is very mobile.
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#427988 - 06/27/10 05:31 PM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: sstefan]
MattJ Offline
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Yeah, I don't agree. Speed bag punching bears about as much resemblance to the mechanics of real punching as doing kata in the air does. The precision and speed it grants will be of little practical value, IMHO.
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#427994 - 06/27/10 07:57 PM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: MattJ]
MAGon Offline
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Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
He has a point though, Matt. The speed bag is a mobile target. The difficulty people have with it in the beginning is precisely being able to hit that moving target. He called it targeting, I called it coordination, but same concept. Dependng on the drills you work on it, you can make it harder to hit, and therefore enhance your ability to connect with something like an opponent's head as he weaves.
I'll agree that, by itself, that's not earth shattering. Add the double-ended bag (An even more mobile target) and the heavy bag, and you have some worthwhile skill-honing going on.
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#428001 - 06/28/10 09:46 AM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: MAGon]
MattJ Offline
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Heh, the disagreement train is on a roll with me! Miguel, while the speed bag does move, hitting it is about rhythm more than aim. Keep a steady cadence whilst aiming at the same spot, and it's not really all that difficult. Rhythm is not even a quality that is very useful in fighting, except in the idea of being able to break the opponent's.

The double end bag is much more about aim, IMHO, and has the benefit of forcing one to work defense at the same time.
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#428006 - 06/28/10 01:08 PM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: MattJ]
MAGon Offline
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Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Hah! In the inmortal words of Big John McCarthy: "Let's get it on!"
Dude, you're right, you're aiming at the same spot. But the trick is hitting it when the bag's there!
Granted, once you get the rhythm it's more a matter of maintining it. I've gotten to the point where I can take my eyes off the bag for a time and not miss... But only for so long. You need to coordinate hand with eye. I'll grant you it gets easier with time. Then again, that's the purpose!
I will agree that the double-ended striking bag is better for targeting/ hand-eye coordination.
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#428014 - 06/29/10 10:12 PM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: MAGon]
Mark Jordan Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 138
Loc: Burbank, California
There is an entirely different rhythm to hitting a double-end bag, than say punching a "heavy bag" that is used to practice power punching and body blows. Heavy bags don't hit back. But when you hit the double-end bag, it rebounds back right at you and by this you will learn to duck, weave, slip etc.

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#428017 - 06/30/10 11:01 AM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: Mark Jordan]
MAGon Offline
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Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
I never said in my posts that there was a sameness in working out with the punching, double-ended and/or heavy bag. In fact, when I wrote:
Quote:
I'll agree that, by itself, that's not earth shattering. Add the double-ended bag (An even more mobile target) and the heavy bag, and you have some worthwhile skill-honing going on.
I meant they complement each other.
My question was directed at the methodology many boxers use to hit the striking bag. I wasn't concerning myself to the double-ended bag or the heavy one, except as a passing thought.
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#428018 - 06/30/10 12:11 PM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: MAGon]
MAGon Offline
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Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Originally Posted By: MAGon
...many boxers use to hit the striking bag...


Correction: The speed bag.
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#428281 - 07/13/10 10:07 PM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: MAGon]
formless Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 72
Shoulder endurance, for throwing those fast, flicky jabs, timing and i have noticed an increase in my reflexes and speed of my punches. i greatly enjoy the speed bag.
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#428581 - 07/25/10 01:26 AM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: formless]
Stormdragon Offline
Who Dares Wins
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/05/04
Posts: 3409
Loc: Salem, OR
Here's an off the wall thought, maybe it has nothing to do with punching technique at all, maybe it's simply a way to build reflexes, timing, etc in a very convenient way. As long as you don't get it in your head that that's how to throw a punch then it's fine. I do stuff all day that doesn't mirror punching at all but it doesn't hurt anything.
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#430609 - 10/22/10 05:52 PM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: Stormdragon]
TimmyJ Offline
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Registered: 10/22/10
Posts: 13
Loc: New Zealand
We do it for speed, timing, reflexes and endurance. Its just another drill for improving punching. And another reason why no one can match boxers at punching lol
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#435863 - 06/13/13 10:56 AM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: TimmyJ]
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Originally Posted By: TimmyJ
We do it for speed, timing, reflexes and endurance. Its just another drill for improving punching. And another reason why no one can match boxers at punching lol


VEEERY old post. It sort of petered off without much more discussion. My fault mostly, since I started it, and my main point of contention was never answered to my satisfaction. So, in the recent spirit of fomenting discussion, I'm gonna do a Lazarus on it, and resurrect it from the dead.
Gonna pick up where it left off: Yeah, but I don't see where "punching" the speed bag the way boxers do improves technique. I've never seen a boxer (anyone, actually) punch that way other than with the speed bag. The why is obvious. So wouldn't it be better all around to hit the speed bag as close to how one would do it while fighting? THAT WAY you're certainly improving your real world punching technique and its speed, and still benefitting timing, endurance and reflexes. So why do it the "funny horizontal hammer fist" way (see the first post on this thread, if that last confused you).
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#435874 - 06/18/13 05:02 AM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: MAGon]
aplant Offline
Just interested.
Member

Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 31
Loc: UK
I'm with you MAGon,

I think you can make reasons for it, e.g. keeping hands high.

I don't think it trains reflexes as it is more about rhythm and knack. I don't think anything would be lost form your boxing regime if it were dropped. I think it's just one of those things that has to be in the corner of every boxing gym.

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#435875 - 06/18/13 02:16 PM Re: Striking/punching bag technique. [Re: aplant]
MAGon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 1737
Loc: Miami, Fl.
Hi, aplant.
While the speed bag isn't the end all, be all, I do find it useful. I just don't see why doing it "the boxing way" confers more benefits than working the bag the way you would fight. If it's a question of keeping your hands high, fine. But why not in a proper guard, instead of with your elbows almost to your shoulders and your body uncovered?
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