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#427609 - 06/10/10 09:48 PM Origins of British jujitsu
eugenemcfadden Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/10/10
Posts: 4
Hi,
My name is Eugene McFadden and I am a senior student under Mark Thomas sensei at Fudoshin jujitsu. We are a small club of adults that broke away from Kevin Pell Hanshi's Ishin Ryu Jujitsu and we are currently working to adapt and change our syllabus to overcome some short comings. Part of this process has been my taking an interest in the evolution of jujitsu in Britain. Pell Hanshi was never particularly forthcoming in the precise details of his own experience, which has lead me to do some digging.

Having read and researched I can see that a Ishin Ryu is a break away of the WJJF, which seems to have been a creation of James Blundell, Richard Morris and Robert Clark. Pell Hanshi studied under them at the WJJF although the precise history is a little vague. I understand that there was some fraud that occurred which led to the WJJF breaking up, am I correct in this?

I also understand that what we take to be jujitsu is, in fact, a form of altered Judo that has been mixed with some other forms of wrestling, making it a gendai martial art as opposed to a traditional koryu. So what we do is not in fact jujitsu at all, which is a shame as I took it up because I was under the impression that it as a traditional Japanese art; not that this matters so much now.

Anyway...

I'm currently trawling the internet and bookshops looking for information on the development of jujitsu in Britain. I've put together a fairly robust time line (save for a few gaps) and have written an article on my blog.


Is there anyone who can supply any more information or any experiences they have had? Any information is good information.

Thanks,

Eugene McFadden

PS
I've posted this on a few forums to get a good spread of information.

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#427612 - 06/11/10 04:06 AM Re: Origins of British jujitsu [Re: eugenemcfadden]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Hi

This is a subject that greatly interests me. I studied with the WJJF for a short time about 6 years ago. Rather naively at the time, I assumed it was in some way a traditional Japanese system. I seen some funny things in class that made me wonder though. First clue was the "Sai Kata". I had read that Sai were used in kobudo systems, but I wondered what on earth the Samurai would've been doing using farming implements when they most likely would've had access to the best weapons money could buy. I mean, would Sai be that useful in a feudal war?

All of that started me wondering what it was I was doing... Plus the WJJF seemed pretty money driven, which was a red flag to me. So I did a bit of research, and after a while, came to the conclusion that you did: Basically it was a mixed system designed by some guys in the UK that wasn't really related to traditional Japanese systems!

There is some info on this subject on E-budo, check there.

If you like I can send you a couple of things I have on the subject. Its not much and you may already have it, but it might help.

FWIW, there are some genuine Koryu classes in the UK if that is what you are interested in. Here is a prominent group that is def. worth checking out:

http://www.hontaiyoshinryu.co.uk/index.html

I know a few more places too if you are interested or want to contact them for info on your blog. Would be very keen to read it!

Good luck and keep up the good work.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#427613 - 06/11/10 04:31 AM Re: Origins of British jujitsu [Re: Prizewriter]
eugenemcfadden Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/10/10
Posts: 4
Please, any information you can send me is valuable. I'm currently on sabbatical from work so have plenty of time to look through things and research.

Yeah, a lot of British jujitsu weapons kata is either
a) nothing to do with Japanese jujitsu weapons
b) nothing like actual kobudo weapons kata

Just a miss-mash of what people thought was cool.

Eugene McFadden

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#427614 - 06/11/10 06:04 AM Re: Origins of British jujitsu [Re: eugenemcfadden]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Sent you a PM.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#427662 - 06/13/10 03:06 PM Re: Origins of British jujitsu [Re: Prizewriter]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
I've never trained in JJ in UK but I do recall reading an article in a British newspaper (not MA mag) about a high ranking member of WJJF having used signatures of Japanese masters without permission.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

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#427666 - 06/13/10 03:51 PM Re: Origins of British jujitsu [Re: trevek]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
I had heard that before trev and I would love to find the article online. Do you remember the paper?

JJ in the UK is both a fascinating & opaque subject. There a few bonafide Koryu schools in the UK, but most places seem to stem from a similar source (either directly or as offshoots). As the OP states, much of the JJ in the UK (and may I add, Ireland) isn't really related to any Japanese martial art, except for possibly borrowing a bit of Judo.

Nothing wrong with that of course as long as everyone is clear about what it is they are doing. Sadly that isn't always the case. If you go on to most of the major JJ UK websites there is usually a derth of information on the actual origins of what it is they teach.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#427703 - 06/14/10 06:38 AM Re: Origins of British jujitsu [Re: Prizewriter]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Can't say I do. I was looking on line and found a couple of refs in forums postings but nothing solid.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

Top
#427896 - 06/23/10 05:44 AM Re: Origins of British jujitsu [Re: trevek]
eugenemcfadden Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/10/10
Posts: 4
it was in the sun or the mirror. But the article is not around. Or, at least, my search fu is weak.

The whole thing is very cloudy and there was also a possibility of alleged insurance fraud.

Eugene

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