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#408922 - 06/02/09 08:43 AM Re: Mong Su Dom Tai Chinese Karate [Re: MAGon]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
Quote:

Hey, Brad, if you ever get tired of Ashihara, there's a thought for ya: Guru Butterfly's School of Hoso Maki Muay Korean Kung Fu!



Does that come with egg roll?

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#408923 - 06/02/09 09:18 AM Re: Mong Su Dom Tai Chinese Karate [Re: iaibear]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Shiva -

I don't want to come across as being snide to you, personally. I think you made a reasonable effort to explain the style. The problem is that text explanations are very vague. In this day and age, it is more meaningful to have some visual means of showing the style.

Your style has schools that teach publicly, yes? And they probably charge money, yes? This means that there is no reason to be secretive about showing the style, or putting more info out about it. This is the schism that many on this forum note about it - why would a public martial art NOT want to further it's reach and understanding with the general public (it's intended audience)?

What we have found here on this forum, over time, is that styles that seek to expand, but *DO NOT* wish to show what they have, are generally seeking to cover technical deficiencies that more experienced martial artists would readily pick up.

Thus our skepticism.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#408924 - 06/03/09 03:07 AM Re: Mong Su Dom Tai Chinese Karate [Re: shiva]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Shiva,

I still may stop by someday when time and interest permits. Not everyone has been overly critical of your style here,so lighten up.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#408925 - 06/03/09 10:39 AM Re: Mong Su Dom Tai Chinese Karate [Re: Togihill]
imperial_crane Offline
Member

Registered: 10/16/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Maryland, USA
Hi Togihill,

You said, "I can see a huge difference in my son's ability. When I put a hold on him now, he actually can get out of it. He can learn more in 1 month here than he learned at Joplin Karate in 6 months." Is that true because your son already had 2 years experience? Maybe his karate training helped him at his new school? Ingrained "muscle memory" assists him at the new art he is taking?

Possible?

Thanks,

Paul
_________________________
Paul S.
Imperial Crane Martial Arts
Maryland, USA

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#408926 - 06/03/09 10:45 AM Re: Mong Su Dom Tai Chinese Karate [Re: BrianS]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1671
Quote:

Shiva,

I still may stop by someday when time and interest permits. Not everyone has been overly critical of your style here,so lighten up.




Not that your post is referring to me (maybe it is), but I'm not being critical as much as curious. I just find some of the things posted to its origin and history as odd and thought they would like to give us a more clear picture of it.

VDJ

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#408927 - 06/04/09 09:09 AM Re: Mong Su Dom Tai Chinese Karate [Re: VDJ]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Quote:

Shiva,

I still may stop by someday when time and interest permits. Not everyone has been overly critical of your style here,so lighten up.




Not that your post is referring to me (maybe it is), but I'm not being critical as much as curious. I just find some of the things posted to its origin and history as odd and thought they would like to give us a more clear picture of it.

VDJ




No, I was just speaking in general.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#427373 - 05/25/10 11:12 PM Re: Mong Su Dom Tai Chinese Karate [Re: BrianS]
SneakyNinja Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/25/10
Posts: 1
First off this is the first time I've ever posted anything on a thread like this so if I break any taboo's please accept my humblest apologies. In regards to Mong Su Dom Tai Chinese Karate I may be able to clear a few things up. First let me present my credentials, I earned my black belt from Mong Su Dom Tai on October 18th 2008. I was going to college at the same time so it took me 8 years, which is longer than average (5 years) to get my black belt. The style was created out in California in the 70's and was so named by the Chinese community out there. Back in those days you had to test for about 5 days before you got your black belt. The name roughly means The Way of the Animal or The Heart of the Animal. There is no clear english translation. As far as the style goes it is about 70 percent original moves and the remaining is heavily influenced by the French kicking style Savat (don't know if I spelled that right) and Krav Maga, Isreali hand to hand combat. Mong Su Dom Tai, which I will now reference as MSDT is not and should never be compared to MMA. It is a self defense art and teaches a person how to judge a person and a situation and how to deal with them accordingly. We only just started teaching young kids a couple of years ago and no, its no glorified daycare, if you want that you should take your kid to Taekwondo, which is a sport. MSDT teaches a person how to connect basic moves into a technique and how to connect techniques into a string of movements in case of a mass attack. We also train in weapons, how to defend against someone who attacks you with a melee weapon, or a knife or a gun. Most people don't make it very far in MSDT because they can't appreciate the level of violence required in a true self defense art. And by appreciate I don't mean enjoy it, I simply mean their brains cannot fathom breaking a man's arm and then maiming it if he threatens one's family. Not eveyone is meant to be a warrior. Even if you only go for a couple years it will vastly increase your self confidence and your self awareness as well as increase your situational awareness. Many times I'll just talk with my instructor and discuss certain philosophies about fighting and life. There are also many programs offered to further the depth of knowledge. I hope this little nugget of info has enlightened you smile If you have any questions feel free post back. I'll try and check back soon.

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#427377 - 05/26/10 01:45 AM Re: Mong Su Dom Tai Chinese Karate [Re: SneakyNinja]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
This whole topic is confusing...

First it was 'street fighting' now Krav Maga as well?

First it's a karate style, now it's a SD style?

It was founded by Hmongs who brought it to Joplin, then two americans, now its named by Chinese community?

Why is there no 'clear' english translation? I used to work as a translator for Thai, Swedish, English, and not once have I been unable to not clearly translate anything.

Does it mean Mong Skill not sure Highest or Way of the animal?
If it's way of the animal then it should end with 'Dao' if it's in Mandarin which it doesn't. So what language is it in? Hmong? I can call up some people in Chiangmai who are Hmong.

I see 3 posters with information that contradicts itself I'm confused. I wonder how you guys get it straight.

First it's based on shaolin kempo like Iron Palm and Chin-Na, now it's 70% own techniques? I'm confused mate.

-Donnie out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#427380 - 05/26/10 04:05 AM Re: Mong Su Dom Tai Chinese Karate [Re: Taison]
BAberger Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 1
Loc: Tulsa, OK
I trained at MSDT from the ages of 7 or 8 until i EARNED my black belt and attaining the rank of sifu at the age of 15. And yes they make you earn a black belt, especially being as young as I was. And the sifu test is a lengthy SOB believe me i still remember sweating that bad-boy out. Since then I have studied many arts ranging from muay thai to kickboxing to judo (also wrestling in high school and earning 2 team state championships). Trying to quench a thirst of knowledge, needless to say I still study today, sorry not MSDT. MSDT is the real deal though. I'm not disrespecting any other art but i practice my kata and technique i learned as a child growing up more than any other art form I have studied. All the arts had their own advantages and disadvantages. But if you are looking for an all-around self defense program that is proven effective and simple to learn, without feeling like your in military training, Not to mention the katas are visually attractive and for the most part practical in every day life. I wouldn't say one art is better than the other, but I'm proud to say that MSDT made me into the martial artist I am today. Yes the knowledge I have taken in over the years has tweaked my style and technique somewhat. But nothing I have studied to date has affected my thought process, ability, or fluidity of motion like MSDT (I'll let you know when I find it). Not to mention extensive weapons training, both defending against armed or bare-handed, and attacking with. I would still study to this day had I not moved to Tulsa, OK. Guarantee when they make it out here I will pick up where I left off knowing that the art has so much more to offer and that i could incorporate the knowledge i have picked up from other arts into what I am being taught. I suggest that if you are interested in practicing martial arts that you give MSDT a try knowing that you will be satisfied. OVERALL I FEEL IT IS BEST TO HAVE A GOOD TO GREAT UNDERSTANDING OF MANY ART FORMS TO BRING OUT YOUR FULL POTENTIAL AS A MARTIAL ARTIST.

P.S. I'm suprised how quickly people put something down based on interpretations of a language that has so many dialects. You know the saying "Never judge a book by its cover" ? This would be one of those moments. Anyone who doubts MSDT should go in a studio and express to the sifu your doubts about the art. They might turn you into a believer like my father, I, and so many others.


-A MARTIAL ARTIST WHOSE OPINION SHOULD BE HEARD-

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#427385 - 05/26/10 06:59 AM Re: Mong Su Dom Tai Chinese Karate [Re: BAberger]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: BAberger
I'm suprised how quickly people put something down based on interpretations of a language that has so many dialects. You know the saying "Never judge a book by its cover" ? This would be one of those moments. Anyone who doubts MSDT should go in a studio and express to the sifu your doubts about the art. They might turn you into a believer like my father, I, and so many others


Its not just a doubt based on translation or linguistic vagueries. So far 3 highly ranked members of the school have posted in its defence, but in so doing, posted 3 different versions not only of its lineage, but of what it actually teaches.
Perhaps, as a sifu in the art yourself, you could clear all this up by giving us a definitive and accurate statement on the following:

1. Who defined it as an art and when
2. What the lineage of the syllabus is (definitive mix of arts it draws from)
3. Either a clear and precise translation of the name, or details of which chinese dialect it draws from, so that others on here may do it for themselves.

As holder of the title 'teacher' in the art, I am confident you can clear these issues up quickly, and in so doing, do a great service to an art you clearly have high regard for.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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