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#426546 - 04/21/10 02:18 PM Joining The ITF
mcmillintkd Offline
Member

Registered: 06/21/06
Posts: 88
I belong to an independent Chang Hon group. I am completely satisfied with group that I belong to. I have friends that have left due to changes in life and have joined one or another of the ITFs. They still belong to the group that I belong to but train and test with the ITF since we do not have a school in their areas. I get to train a couple of times a month with both. Their respected instructors have invited me to test for my 2nd dan with them (I am 2nd dan with the group I am with). They each tell me that I can improve my future "prospects" by being a member of the ITF. The question I have is should I join the ITF? I am not stating which two different ITFs that we are talking about because I want do not want to poison the well so to speak.

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#426549 - 04/21/10 04:35 PM Re: Joining The ITF [Re: mcmillintkd]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Without wanting to sound too cynical, the question I would ask is: If I joined the ITF, who does it benefit most, me or them (the ITF)?

Are these ITF instructors going to be asking for something from you, such as to represent them at competitions, take classes etc....? Also, are they using an established member of an independent club as a gateway in to that club? I mean, if you grade with the ITF, will other people in your club follow suit?

As I said, sorry to sound cynical but 90% of martial arts instructors I've met would only do something if it benefits themselves in some way. It may benefit someone else, but sometimes that is neither here nor there.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#426552 - 04/21/10 07:47 PM Re: Joining The ITF [Re: Prizewriter]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
I'm pretty sure that the 2 you're speaking of are ITF-V & ITF-NK, I don't see this very frequently with ITF-C. Prizewriter makes a good point, how does it benefit you and not the org? Is it important to you to have a certificate from one of them? as PW asks, will you be asked to represent them in some way or are they just looking toincrease their #'s. ITF-V is in some upheaval at present due to losing their president GM Tran in the Haiti EQ. I personally would not entertain join ITF-NK because well, North Korea. I don't care what they say, it is an extension of that regime! Personally, if I were to join one of them it would be ITF-C only because of the people I know within the org have been so good to me.

VDJ

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#426554 - 04/21/10 10:00 PM Re: Joining The ITF [Re: VDJ]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: VDJ
ITF-V is in some upheaval at present due to losing their president GM Tran in the Haiti EQ. I personally would not entertain join ITF-NK because well, North Korea. I don't care what they say, it is an extension of that regime! Personally, if I were to join one of them it would be ITF-C only because of the people I know within the org have been so good to me. VDJ
A bit off topic, but please let me stray.
I think the ITF-V has been run as a democratic org, following set rules & regs. I hope that they follow this pattern & will weather the loss of a great TKD leader, GM Tran. There may be a contested election at the next Congress & hopefully they will be stronger for it.
As far as NK goes, they have exerted control & influence over the ITF since the 80s. What makes it different now & why would it matter in 2010, when it did not matter to so many for 30 years? The ITF was most likely saved by the support NK gave it. Just like the WTF was made so strong with the support they got from SK.
Joing the ITF-C is equally a viable alternative, as they are lead by the Founder's son, who is in a unique position to follow closely his father's footsteps, while also avoiding some of the mistakes he saw his fahter make, up close & peronsal

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#426555 - 04/21/10 10:07 PM Re: Joining The ITF [Re: ITFunity]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
"As far as NK goes, they have exerted control & influence over the ITF since the 80s. What makes it different now & why would it matter in 2010, when it did not matter to so many for 30 years?"

The difference now in 2010 is that you have 2 other like orgs that are not influenced (though ITF-V has involvment with considering a merge) or controlled by NK.

VDJ

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#426556 - 04/21/10 10:13 PM Re: Joining The ITF [Re: mcmillintkd]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: mcmillintkd
1) Their respected instructors have invited me to test for my 2nd dan with them (I am 2nd dan with the group I am with).
2) They each tell me that I can improve my future "prospects" by being a member of the ITF.
3) The question I have is should I join the ITF?
My 1st comment would be in response to #1 above. You are a 2nd Dan. So I would suggest working with them to get you ready for 3rd Dan when your time is in & you have grasped the requirements of the org. If anything, they should help you do a Dan transfer, which should be easy to do, since a 2nd Dan is not a high dan, which is more complicated with students transfering in.
As to point #2, I would ask them to clarify how your future "prospects" would be improved. Then judge & evaluate their responses.
Finally when one looks to join a group, they must decide what benefits are in it for you, the prospective member. In other words, what can membership in that group offer you. There are 3 basic things that one gets from a MA org. One is certification. The next is access to knowledge, information & training with seniors. Finally membership can afford you the opportunity to participate in events, like camps, training, seminars, umpire & instructor courses & the big one, competition, local, regional, national & international, as well as world championships. It would be awesome for competitors to have the opportunity & chance to compete this year in SK at the ITF-C WCs or next year at the ITF-NK WCs in NK. That is so cool. The ITF-V will host their's in New Zealand, which is not a bad place to travel to for a WCs either!

So when you look at the benefits, you see that most tournaments & events, like training, camps, seminars etc are usually open to all or many, as they wish to increase revenue & of course offer an opportunity for outsiders to see benefits of joing an org. So really all you would miss is certification & the WCs, as you need a certificate for that.

So you the prospective member must weigh the costs of joining to see if it is worth it. I also would consider the local leaders of the groups, as those are the faces & personalities that you may work with the most, so it helps if that is a good fit.
Good luck with whatever you decide

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#426558 - 04/21/10 10:16 PM Re: Joining The ITF [Re: VDJ]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: VDJ
"As far as NK goes, they have exerted control & influence over the ITF since the 80s. What makes it different now & why would it matter in 2010, when it did not matter to so many for 30 years?"
The difference now in 2010 is that you have 2 other like orgs that are not influenced (though ITF-V has involvment with considering a merge) or controlled by NK. VDJ
Good points. But the ITF-NK is the largest of the 3 groups & most probably holds the most weight, as they were the ones knocking on the IOC door & in merger talks with the WTF. They also have the most seniors as well

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#426561 - 04/22/10 12:50 AM Re: Joining The ITF [Re: ITFunity]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
Originally Posted By: ITFunity
Good points. But the ITF-NK is the largest of the 3 groups & most probably holds the most weight, as they were the ones knocking on the IOC door & in merger talks with the WTF. They also have the most seniors as well


Merger with the WTF? Controlled by North Korea? Eeewwww to both.

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#426564 - 04/22/10 08:16 AM Re: Joining The ITF [Re: ITFunity]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Originally Posted By: ITFunity
Originally Posted By: VDJ
"As far as NK goes, they have exerted control & influence over the ITF since the 80s. What makes it different now & why would it matter in 2010, when it did not matter to so many for 30 years?"
The difference now in 2010 is that you have 2 other like orgs that are not influenced (though ITF-V has involvment with considering a merge) or controlled by NK. VDJ
Good points. But the ITF-NK is the largest of the 3 groups & most probably holds the most weight, as they were the ones knocking on the IOC door & in merger talks with the WTF. They also have the most seniors as well


Membership numbers aren't always the big thing. ITF-C has had more events and better infiltration to SK than has ITF-NK. ITF-NK's president has the olympic clout but we both know that sport TKD is on very shaky ground.

VDJ

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#426565 - 04/22/10 08:20 AM Re: Joining The ITF [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
VDJ Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1674
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
Originally Posted By: ITFunity
Good points. But the ITF-NK is the largest of the 3 groups & most probably holds the most weight, as they were the ones knocking on the IOC door & in merger talks with the WTF. They also have the most seniors as well


Merger with the WTF? Controlled by North Korea? Eeewwww to both.



He didn't say that it would be controlled by NK, just that they have had the most success in discussions to get ITF members to be able to compete jointly at the olympics.

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