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#426392 - 04/08/10 07:29 AM my kata
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
hey guys, i've been working on some new kata over the last few months and took some video of them last night. Please have a look and make any corrections you feel would help. i walked through the kata at a slower pace and tried to smooth them out a bit to take off the rough edges.

also, i know in advance that i don't move like a traditional JKA shotokan guy. its on purpose.


Nijushiho
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sonya_natasha/4501979872/

Unsu
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sonya_natasha/4501836356/

Kitte
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sonya_natasha/4501080467/


posted for your enjoyment, please let me know what you think.
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#426395 - 04/08/10 08:49 AM Re: my kata [Re: student_of_life]
underdog Offline
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Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
I'm not familiar with Nijushiho which may or may not be an advantage. All I could look at was the general impression and the basics. Overall, I'd say very well done. The single exception would be the side kicks. All the other moves are much as we would do them. We usually complete the side kick by bringing it back more. If that is not what you are trying to do, oh well, the rest looks great and I was just trying to look at it in a helpful way.

Unsu was a winner. I'd give anything to be able to do a kata like that. Same for Kitte, which also had better kicks than Nijushiho.

Awesome. That is what kata should look like.
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#426399 - 04/08/10 11:34 AM Re: my kata [Re: student_of_life]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Student:

Not knowing any of those kata specifically to my knowledge/by those names is our critique still welcome (even valid) ?

Jeff

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#426405 - 04/08/10 12:50 PM Re: my kata [Re: Ronin1966]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
of course. there are lots of styles, but anyone familiar with kata practice should be aware of what makes a good kata. and please don't hold back criticism, its pretty much the only way i get better.

*edit*
and thank you Underdog, very kind words. yeah, the kicks do need more retraction. thats a tough move, when i retract too much i loose the momentum i need for the punch. all about ballance i guess.


Edited by student_of_life (04/08/10 12:51 PM)
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#426411 - 04/08/10 02:38 PM Re: my kata UNSU [Re: student_of_life]
Ronin1966 Offline
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Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello student_of_life:

You are a brave man my friend... putting your kata out there to be analyzed. Yikes.... crazy

I am not familiar with those particular kata. However from a structural standpoint I'll make the following observation(s) for whatever worth they might be to you, if any.

UNSU:
I have SERIOUS concerns re: your splayed (open) fingers anyplace in the kata. Initally looks (?) like your thumbs are hanging out waiting to be broken/smashed because they appear isolated and are not firmly pressing against the rest of your hand. It could easily have been the camera angle and an optical illusion though. You tell us?

The same concerning the other fingers at various times. It could well be stylized and therefore correct, but I find serious mechanical-structural problems with open fingers seperated that way always.

As for the foot positioning, it APPEARS that as assorted places your foot is NOT connected to the ground. The outside edge, the inside edge were touching, but not the entire foot. That is a meaningful problem at various points where the stance itself, the stance to generate a strong kick and definately was not remotely stable IMV.

You can't be on your tippy toes/be ~off the ground~ with that foot and expect to kick well using the other.


However other than that, time and more careful study perhaps there might be more. But I liked the general speed, its not too fast, too slow... simply going through at a moderate practice pace. The power your generating seems ~relaxed~ and that too I like the basic gist.

There is always stuff to work on, and I could easily be mistaken. Someday perhaps I will be this brave...

Jeff


Edited by Ronin1966 (04/08/10 03:01 PM)
Edit Reason: Subject heading clarification

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#426413 - 04/08/10 02:51 PM Re: my kata KITTE [Re: student_of_life]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello student_of_life:

As before not familiar with this particular kata. As before as such my critique may be completely invalid/irrelevent.

Same complaint as before re: your splayed fingers. This time it does appear definately stylized to some extent, seems tangible you do it this time at least.

Regardless, those specific instances aside, when you do it elsewhere, or even there I still "object" <wg>.

Also your foot/weight placement is driving me NUTS. Your weight is almost exclusively, entirely on the inside edge of your foot pretty consistantly throughout the entire kata.

That is a red flag (for me)!

Weight should be on both the inside and outside of the foot equally. But given the choice, ever forced to choose between the two, weight should only be on the outside edge of the foot. Yours is the exact opposite...

Believe (rightly/wrongly) that is a meaningful mistake on your part. At several points you appeared to be in motion or worse have lost any connection to the ground while punching. Could be stylized movement, but I believe that is mistaken as well.

No complaints per se with speed or power, but I think here there are some tangible structural-weight problems. But hey, I also could be wrong, and it won't be the last time either <ggg>

Jeff


Edited by Ronin1966 (04/08/10 03:00 PM)

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#426414 - 04/08/10 02:54 PM Re: my kata [Re: Ronin1966]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
thanks.

i've herd this about the fingers being splayed before from top karate instructors. initially i followed it like doctrine, but i spar a lot and i practice BJJ, and honestly i've found it to be a moot point. different hand positions represent different ways of grabbing, or different techniques, so they need to be followed for details sake. actually, i now don't focus on keeping a tight hand through the kata now, my focus is on what my core is doing and how i move my center of gravity.

and about the foot thing. lets just say i've spent a lot of time on it already. i have a weird arch in my foot and the middle of the sole of my foot dosn't touch the ground. i understand the point you made, but my foot anatomically can't do it. if i push the outside edge down to make the space smaller, the inside edge of my foot rises. maybe that means that karate isn't for me.

thanks again, the more it gets disected the more i learn.
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#426416 - 04/08/10 03:27 PM Re: my kata [Re: student_of_life]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello student_of_life"

The finger thing is not dogma, but bone structure 101. Tiny little bones dislike being away from their four unified "brothers". But if open this way they are smashable and easily broken/damaged solely because they are not supported by the other fingers. Open hand, closed hand irrelevent, single fingers BAD idea.

<<i now don't focus on keeping a tight hand through the kata now, my focus is on what my core is doing and how i move my center of gravity.

Understood. And we're not talking about making diamonds by how your hand is perhaps holding some grains of sand. Simply talking about avoiding the potential for problems IMV.

<<i have a weird arch in my foot and the middle of the sole of my foot dosn't touch the ground.

There are multiple arches in the foot, though only the biggest one is typically thought much about by us or anyone else. Let me make sure I understand your meaning though.

Are you saying that if your foot were a rectangle. That ONLY one edge or the other of that rectangle is physically ever able to be in solid contact with the ground? You cannot have both sides of said rectangle touching at the same time confused ?

As for "karate" not being for you... that's silly! You cannot climb into the body of Zeus or Mars, and do karate from those bodies. We all have anatomical quirks, problems. The question is how do we generate maximum power with those ~anamolies~ not ignoring them. Explore the challenges... its not a lifetime art because the art itslef is that hard to "get". We are that's why its a lifetime thing...

There were several points in either kata which you appeared to be in firm connection with the ground. It was by in large when you picked up speed, sought power in your fists that you rolled to the edges pretty melodramaticly IMHV.

Merely my observation, I can surely (as always) be mistaken,

Jeff

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#426424 - 04/09/10 05:35 AM Re: my kata [Re: Ronin1966]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
Jeff, in the Kitte (I only ever heard of Jitte as a Shotokan Kata) you can clearly see Marks 'ankle-difficulties'. I don't think he isn't trying.

Mark, your kata look powerfull and of good pace. I have to agree with Jeff on the loose fingers in the Kaishu/Shuto handforms. They are really easily damaged. Also tightening the hand/fingers make a better striking surface. Followed up grabbing motions aren't affected, since these grabbing motions are fast enough.
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#426425 - 04/09/10 07:15 AM Re: my kata [Re: Ronin1966]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
there are a few times in the video when you see the outside edge of my foot close to the camera. when i have equal pressure on the inside and outside, there is still a small gap between the floor and my foot near the heel on the outside edge. if i push it down to make the gap disapear, then the inside edge looses connection.

we've been working on this is class by focusing on knee-toe alingment. where, like a squat, when you bend your knee it should track out over between your big and "index" toes. this puts the pressure down the middle of the knee and ankle joint. weather or not this has sunk in to me yet is another story, lol.


thanks for the replies guys. i appreciate it all.
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#426466 - 04/14/10 08:11 AM Re: my kata [Re: student_of_life]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
Mark,
as long as you are aware of your form. Try to have maximum contact with the floor, thatīs the best you could do.
Speed isnīt everything in training, good performance on the lower speed. Some people tend to take the speed too far.
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Ives

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#426469 - 04/14/10 12:00 PM Re: my kata [Re: student_of_life]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello Mark:

I find foot problems often can be reduced by looking at the joint directly above it (knee). Same for other body parts too I guess...

As long as you have contact with the ground, I doubt it will be as serious a problem as our "dissection" of them might seem??? Regardless, its something you'll be playing with for a bunch of years... until you are content with the results

I vaguely remember a book in my library which spoke to the ankle, foot issue, let me see if I can recall which one. Might have been Karate-Do Foundations (Fueller?), might have been Brian Frost's book. Have to ponder that a bit.

I'm a "Shorin" stylist both by lineage and preference. The knee bending is a basic-fundamental of the particular art I practice. Don't forget to press your knee slightly OUTWARD, once you have the knee bending issue down a little more.

Its maddening all the tiny little parts you can focus on, if you turn your attention to that particular "X" level. I know exactly why all the fabled masters went off into the mountains to spend some time. They literally went INSANE trying to figure this all out laugh.

Thanks for sharing your different kata with us, we mean no offense/harm by our addled thoughts, comments...

Jeff

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#426563 - 04/22/10 07:55 AM Re: my kata [Re: Ronin1966]
student_of_life Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
i appreciate the input guys. i also filmed tekki shodan last night, so have a look at that one and let me know what you think.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sonya_natasha/4543126744/

again, please don't hold back. im only a shodan and i understand i'll be training for the rest of my life. thanks again
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#426607 - 04/24/10 06:39 AM Re: my kata [Re: student_of_life]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
Your tekki shodan is quite different from the ISSHINRYU naifanchi kata though from the same source.

But in my experience you stances are solid and I feel the upper body performance is a little rushed.

At times you move onto the next technique before I feel the last technique is completed. That may be a signature of your system but I'd prefer the full strike completed before moving onto the next.

hope that helps,
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#426609 - 04/24/10 08:19 AM Re: my kata [Re: Victor Smith]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Tekki Shodan was good. I have trouble deciding how to comment on people's pacing because it is such in individual thing and I suspect that a highly knowledgeable person could tell you what school you went to based on your pacing. I watched through a few times to see how much of the rushing on the arms was due to the video itself, or the performance. As best I can tell, it may be some of both. The moves seem to be complete so from my own viewing, I don't have a problem with it. When I myself do the kata, the arms go slower more to match the legs.
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#426611 - 04/24/10 08:33 PM Re: my kata [Re: underdog]
Victor Smith Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
It is difficult to understand another path just from watching a video. My suggestion was offered to give you my impression which you will use or not by your own training standards.

I trained in the Sutrisno Shotokan for about 10 years but am not as Shotokan expert, and can only draw upon my shared experiences.

Use of a different timing from what I prefer is more likely a different set of application potentials using that timing too.

I appreciate watching your performance.
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victor smith bushi no te isshinryu offering free instruction for 30 years

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#426631 - 04/26/10 08:29 AM Re: my kata [Re: Victor Smith]
Ives Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 691
Loc: the Netherlands
One major thing I noticed is the opening to your right; you use a shuto-uchi, whereas on the opening to the left (ura of the stuff performed) you use a haishu-uchi. In other words, you start out holding your hand horizontal, but on the same point in the other direction, you keep your hand vertical.

Like mentioned in response to the other kata, you kept your fingers loose, not closed.

You slightly turn in your knees with sideward techniques (it's hard to do without I know). For example on the soto-uke.

Nice work though.
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Ives

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