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#426388 - 04/08/10 04:11 AM Re: Methadrone control [Re: Cord]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Originally Posted By: Cord

I want a future where people are self aware enough to create a life for themselves where escape from their reality is not a requirement for social happiness, and where any substance is used from a stable and considered positive decision process, not one of desperation, frustration, and misery.
Making drugs stronger and safer is not the answer to this, making people stronger and safer is.


Dude I'd vote for you. I agree with absolutely everything you've said in this thread mate.
_________________________
Gavin King
www.SHIKON.COM
Follow me on twitter @taichigav

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#426389 - 04/08/10 04:57 AM Re: Methadrone control [Re: Gavin]
grumbleweed Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/06
Posts: 446
I'd vote for Zammo, he was my moral compass!!! smile
_________________________
"Irony is mainly used by the British in in order to distinguish themselves from Americans, which worked very well until the Americans had more guns than them."

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#426402 - 04/08/10 12:10 PM Re: Methadrone control [Re: Cord]
MiSt Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 396
Quote:
Well, if you had walked a mile in my shoes you would throw away your sociology books.


Why do you assume that I've not seen violence and bullying myself? Also why do you assume that your own personal experiences are any more of an accurate reflection of society as a whole than the millions of case studies undertaken over the years? If your working as a bouncer in a rough area, the people coming to you are not typical of the population, they are aggressive [censored], and if your not careful before long you start seeing everyone in the same way which is damaging to a positive outlook, for myself I think if I took md it could help me realise that most people are not as low as some of my personal experiences imply.

Quote:
I am not talking about fear, i am talking about finding trustworthy, reasonably sincere individuals who are truly worth liking/loving for who they are, not what they want the world to think they are.
You know the old saying 'there are no strangers, only friends I havent met yet' ? Its wrong, its not healthy, and its foolish.


Agreed, however most people who I dislike I dislike because I dont understand, not because they are [censored], the worlds not black and white yeah?

Personally I wouldn't use md to meet new people, I'd use it in a home enviroment with close mates. A day without ego would be refreshing, its a [censored] hidious negative off shoot from evolution that I dispise and serves no purpose other than adding survival (in a primitive agressive way, not a fuel my body way, I apprichiate they used to be one and the same, but they no longer are) and wanting to [censored], two things I don't need most of the time.


Quote:
You say that like it wasa conscious decision to fight it. It wasnt, I wanted to enjoy it, but my rational mind rebelled against the change in the brain chemistry, causing heightened anxiety and paranoia. Dont believe the hype, plenty of people have a bad time on E.


Well that sucks for you, but more get violent on booze than parnoid on e! I know which drug I'd rather see fuel saturday nights thats for sure.


Quote:
Yeah, love You should try working security at a rave to see how much 'love' is around when people steal eachothers pills, or try and deal in another persons patch.
It wasnt a love in, it was a bunch of people in stupid hats being taken advantage of whilst maintaining a misguided sense of superiority.


I don't need to work at a rave to see this, I've been there for the music and seen it with my own eyes. All these problems are caused by prohibition not by the drug itself. Sounds like you just don't like the crowd, which is fine we can't help who we feel at home with!

Quote:
I do not think that making a bad personal choice should make you a criminal. If you smoke weed, become a shut in, and screw up your lungs through heavy habitual use, then good luck to you. If you drink yourself into an early grave, good luck to you. If you stick needles in your arm, lose your job and end up selling your arse on a street corner, good luck to you.
As long as your decision to purchase and use ALL substances results in money going back into society to help deal with the mess you make around yourself, then its all good.
What we have at the moment is bad decisions costing billions in taxes, and none of the BILLIONS spent on narcotics being available to balance the scales.


So so true, well said. Although not only does probition punish the abusers as in your example but also those that use in moderation.


Quote:
I want a future where people are self aware enough to create a life for themselves where escape from their reality is not a requirement for social happiness, and where any substance is used from a stable and considered positive decision process, not one of desperation, frustration, and misery.
Making drugs stronger and safer is not the answer to this, making people stronger and safer is.


Plenty of very happy people take drugs, why?

Quote:
All that 'live fast die young, leave a good looking corpse' stuff is easy to say when you are young, but very few can repeat it with conviction when a tumour is eating through their bowel and all they have left is a long painfull death.


The human condition is tragic either way.


Cord I don't think making people stronger and healthier would reduce the need to alter our consousness, I hope your right, but I dont think you are. I wouldn't even know where to start with this one in terms of getting acaedmic about it, as at the minute we can't even measure happiness.
_________________________
"The deeper you delve into philosophy the sadder you become."

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#426409 - 04/08/10 01:41 PM Re: Methadrone control [Re: MiSt]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: MiSt

Why do you assume that I've not seen violence and bullying myself? Also why do you assume that your own personal experiences are any more of an accurate reflection of society as a whole than the millions of case studies undertaken over the years?


I am not making assumptions. Sociology makes assumptions. I was not talking about responding to actively unpleasant people, I was talking about a chemical inducing a false sense of affection for people you dont know, leaving you prone to be taken advantage of, or make bad choices around. You see the potential for alcohol to change the way you interact with people as negative, but MDMA's effect as positive. I say dont trust either drug over the other. And I a talking from personal experience, not books. Come to think of it, if you smoke weed anyway, and are pro MDMA, seeing it as a harmless, positive substance, I have to ask why I am the only one of the 2 of us who has used it?

Quote:
If your working as a bouncer in a rough area, the people coming to you are not typical of the population, they are aggressive [censored], and if your not careful before long you start seeing everyone in the same way which is damaging to a positive outlook


That is not where i am coming from AT ALL. I am approaching this based on my personal observations within drug culture, nothing else.
The big problem is that drugs alter your perception of reality, but reality remains a constant that you have to deal with.

An example: A girl I worked with was really into E and clubbing. Always going to manchester or London to the big clubs. Even worked as a cage dancer a few times. One night, having done a lot of pills, she got seperated from her friends, and ended up hooking up with another group of pilled up 'new friends'. In her euphoric state she made some bad choices, became too trusting, and got gang raped in a bedsit by the very same group frown
It just would not have happened if she had not been high.

Quote:
for myself I think if I took md it could help me realise that most people are not as low as some of my personal experiences imply.


again, i have to ask, whats stopping you from this positive, risk and consequence free experience?

Quote:
Agreed, however most people who I dislike I dislike because I dont understand, not because they are [censored], the worlds not black and white yeah?


During a lifetime, you will be very fortunate, out of the thousands of people you encounter, to meet 5 people that prove over time that they can be trusted completely. The older you get, the less friends you make and the more acquaintances you collect.

Quote:
Personally I wouldn't use md to meet new people, I'd use it in a home enviroment with close mates.


Its not the right vibe for MDMA. Its far too 'sociable' a drug for that situation. That environment is perfect for LSD or mushrooms however.

Quote:
A day without ego would be refreshing, its a [censored] hidious negative off shoot from evolution that I dispise and serves no purpose other than adding survival (in a primitive agressive way, not a fuel my body way, I apprichiate they used to be one and the same, but they no longer are) and wanting to screw, two things I don't need most of the time.


1. Ego is part of every living creatures mental make up. Mating displays, territory disputes. Its all promotion of an individual self. To think that that goes away with drug use is ridiculous!! The whole culture has a hierarchy, from proper 'heads' down to weekend warriors, with a lot of judgement social streaming based on perception of others place in the pecking order.

2. A loss of libido is a medical side effect of long term cannabis use.


Quote:

Well that sucks for you, but more get violent on booze than parnoid on e! I know which drug I'd rather see fuel saturday nights thats for sure.


Well on this one I will talk from a doorstaff perspective, and say that people off their faces for any reason are a pain the arse, unpredictable, and no fun to deal with.

Quote:

I don't need to work at a rave to see this, I've been there for the music and seen it with my own eyes. All these problems are caused by prohibition not by the drug itself. Sounds like you just don't like the crowd, which is fine we can't help who we feel at home with!


someone stealing someone elses drugs has nothing to do with where they were bought from!! And its amazing how pi$$ed off someone full of love for their fellow man can get when they are short a baggy of pills smirk

Quote:
Quote:
I want a future where people are self aware enough to create a life for themselves where escape from their reality is not a requirement for social happiness, and where any substance is used from a stable and considered positive decision process, not one of desperation, frustration, and misery.
Making drugs stronger and safer is not the answer to this, making people stronger and safer is.


Plenty of very happy people take drugs, why?


I am not saying only miserable people take drugs. I am saying only happy balanced people should take drugs.

Quote:
Quote:
All that 'live fast die young, leave a good looking corpse' stuff is easy to say when you are young, but very few can repeat it with conviction when a tumour is eating through their bowel and all they have left is a long painfull death.


The human condition is tragic either way.


Seriously, you will cringe at sh1t like this when you grow up.


Quote:
Cord I don't think making people stronger and healthier would reduce the need to alter our consousness, I hope your right, but I dont think you are. I wouldn't even know where to start with this one in terms of getting acaedmic about it, as at the minute we can't even measure happiness.


If your reality is good, and you are happy in it, then you have less motivation to alter it. If you drive a battered old escort, you may find you have an urge to get it decals, a new exhaust, uprate the suspension and the sound system. If you drive a Ferrari, you get it it serviced every 20.000 miles and enjoy it as it was created.
People should spend more time making their life a ferrari, and less time mucking about modifiying their old beaters wink
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#426412 - 04/08/10 02:50 PM Re: Methadrone control [Re: Cord]
MiSt Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 396
Quote:
2. A loss of libido is a medical side effect of long term cannabis use.


its not working! :P:P

I've not done md because I cant get it, no other reason. Its rare, check pillreports.com if you dont believe me 95% of pills these days are bs and in the last year md crystals have gone the same way. Prohibition seems to be winning the war on mdma. youn say thats not the correct environment for md but from what ive read neither is a rave, its all preference. I mean for example, people are using ket at raves :-S

Quote:
I am not saying only miserable people take drugs. I am saying only happy balanced people should take drugs.


the day talktofrank advice reads like that will be a good day, thats one of the best advice concerning drugs I've read.

Quote:
Seriously, you will cringe at sh1t like this when you grow up.


stop knocking your own validity by posting [censored] like that plz, its a real shame. I dont care that you dont agree with it or that it makes you cringe, [censored] great fantastic, you need to explain why.
_________________________
"The deeper you delve into philosophy the sadder you become."

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#426415 - 04/08/10 02:55 PM Re: Methadrone control [Re: MiSt]
grumbleweed Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/06
Posts: 446
<<you need to explain why.>>


oh dear, now you've asked for it!!! grin
_________________________
"Irony is mainly used by the British in in order to distinguish themselves from Americans, which worked very well until the Americans had more guns than them."

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#426417 - 04/08/10 03:28 PM Re: Methadrone control [Re: MiSt]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: MiSt
Quote:
2. A loss of libido is a medical side effect of long term cannabis use.


its not working! :P:P


Its the truth. I dont care if you your crockery isnt getting polished. Your drug use. Your reality. Your problem. I fully support your right to ruin your sex life legally.

Quote:
I've not done md because I cant get it, no other reason. Its rare, check pillreports.com if you dont believe me 95% of pills these days are bs and in the last year md crystals have gone the same way.


Good grief. You know once, there was a time before the internet, when you just bought stuff and hoped for the best. If it was cut heavily, you took more. Hilarity or hospital ensued. As it stands, it is still an illegal and unregulated industry, but if your reality at present is that culture, then dont spoil the fun of it by reading consumer reports!! grin
They dont call it 'experimenting' with drugs for nothing. I remember a particularly strange time when we were sold opiated thai resin without being warned. We just thought it was red seal, but OMG!! we were wrong sick sleep crazy

Quote:
youn say thats not the correct environment for md but from what ive read neither is a rave, its all preference. I mean for example, people are using ket at raves :-S


Reading again? You are the Will Hunting of the drug world.

Quote:

stop knocking your own validity by posting [censored] like that plz, its a real shame. I dont care that you dont agree with it or that it makes you cringe, [censored] great fantastic, you need to explain why.


Because all that Sylvia Plath 'life is a terminal desease' nihilism sounds great in your teens and even through some of your 20's. Remember, you are talking to a lifelong goth here, but seriously, when you lose people to things - when you have a friend kill himself on LSD, a friend get raped on E, when you blow 600 a weekend on charlie, when people in your family develop life threatening medical problems through life choices catching up with them, then you realise that all that nonchelant sage philosaphising about the inevitability of death doesnt prevent the smell in a cancer ward from ingraining itself in your nostrils. It doesnt alleviate your feelings of fear, helplessness and misery. It doesnt make death cool, or chic, or clever. Death remains death, and no matter how inevitable it may be, only the fool rushes to greet it.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#426420 - 04/08/10 06:23 PM Re: Methadrone control [Re: Cord]
MiSt Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 396
dunno who will hunting is mate, and 95% of pills are bzp ive taken enough to know i dont enjoy
_________________________
"The deeper you delve into philosophy the sadder you become."

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#426421 - 04/08/10 06:55 PM Re: Methadrone control [Re: MiSt]
MiSt Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 396
dont even know what to add, just reached the stage where its at risk of getting personal whilst I dont even disagree with much uve said, if ur ever in leicester we can meet up for a chat!
_________________________
"The deeper you delve into philosophy the sadder you become."

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#426422 - 04/09/10 04:01 AM Re: Methadrone control [Re: MiSt]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: MiSt
dunno who will hunting is mate, and 95% of pills are bzp ive taken enough to know i dont enjoy


'Good Will Hunting' . Top movie, you should check it out.

You said repeatedly you hadnt done pills, and now you have? confused

What you have to reconcile is the fact that even most drug users will acknowledge that there are serious issues and dangers involved, and that there is usually some personal cost in long term usage. Like I have said, I am absolutely pro-legalisation, but that is not the same as saying 'drugs are awesome!!'. Its the only move that makes fiscal and moral sense to society.

Iggy Pop once said something that I wholeheartedly agree with, and that is 'There comes a time when you start getting less and less out of the drugs, and they start taking more and more from you'. It happened to me, and I was able to recognise that before life fell apart completely, and had the good fortune to be able to change my habits and lifestyle. Some are not fortunate enough to be able to do this.

I also grant you that for a huge majority of people, drug use is a 'phase' in their youth. An expression of rebellion/freedom, and a way to spice up the weekend.

But you have to ask yourself why there are not more lifelong narcotic users? Is it because we 'sell out' as we get older, that some inner fire, or zest for life dies? Or is it the fact that as we get older, we establish our place in the world, find a career, a partner we care about, and find relative peace and contentment in our lives so that drug use simply gets relegated?

The trick is to keep your options open as a youth. If you get the balance wrong with any drug, they can rob you of career choices, healthy relationships and the chance of a contented reality. If that happens, all you have left is the drug of choice for escape. That is not personal freedom, anymore than government regulations give you freedom now.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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