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#425921 - 03/19/10 08:54 AM Re: The Karate Kid Remake shows whats missing in MMA [Re: glasshopper]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:
I think you maybe letting the whole media pre fight hype cloud the real picture that allot of these guys live by.


This has nothing to do with media hype. I train in an MMA school, Muay Thai is my current style. I am not attacking the quality of the character of MMA guys or schools, nor am I saying you don't find fakes and arrogant a$$'s in TMA.

What I am saying is that MMA schools strip away the pomp and circumstance of the Arts. People all over my schools have TMA backgrounds, but our schools is run like a boxing gym more then a Dojo, that's not a bad thing simply a choice.

I come from a Okinawan Karate background that can be traced backed to the late 1800's and before. The history and tradition, richness of the art is very appealing to me, especially as I get older and can find the beauty in all of it.

This has nothing to do with throwing the better punch or having superior training methods, it's about package.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#425922 - 03/19/10 09:03 AM Re: The Karate Kid Remake shows whats missing in MMA [Re: Cord]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:
You do know that Jackie Chan is NOT a TMAist, or MA'ist in any true sense of the word rig


This has already been addressed but I am well aware of his background with the Opera, and that he is closer too an XMA guy then a pure MA. He is a performer. Still those movements are based in applicable Martial Arts teaching.

Cord your post about the rest of it makes me wonder if you are just playing DA, or you really don't get it. Someone can make an amazing meal better, just by the way they plate it up. Presentation has value. I get the feeling you'd be just as happy if the Chef just dumped in a bowl, it all ends up in the same place anyway right?
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Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#425923 - 03/19/10 09:20 AM Re: The Karate Kid Remake shows whats missing in MMA [Re: Gibberer]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Quote:
My teacher has only ever spoken once about anything remotely moral and it was quite simple... as you get stronger, you should do your best to be kinder to people. Being strong gives you more ability to be kind.

I don't think you need much more than this, but really, we all know this already and you you shouldn't need a gorilla like karate teacher to tell you so, especially when your in your 30s as I am....


In practice I don't think you need to learn about Morals from you MA teacher, in fact that can get a bit cultish pretty quick. But that does not preclude you from learning the history and tradition of the Art you are studying...this could even be included in a MMA class, a little history and even rituals.

For instance MMA fighters touch gloves "fist" before combat. That is a ritual, not really different then a bow or salute, and it encompasses the same philosophical tenets of my TMA past.

There is an honest history there, and it's an important one, sure in a sense it goes without saying.

In our school it's considered bad form to ask a higher rank to roll or spar with you (different the asking for help just to be clear). This is a code, it's understood the higher rank asks the lower rank to roll, or it's assigned by the instructor. Again, ritual, etiquette is developing naturally.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#425928 - 03/19/10 12:22 PM Re: The Karate Kid Remake shows whats missing in MMA [Re: Kimo2007]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: Kimo2007
Quote:
I think you maybe letting the whole media pre fight hype cloud the real picture that allot of these guys live by.


This has nothing to do with media hype. I train in an MMA school, Muay Thai is my current style. I am not attacking the quality of the character of MMA guys or schools, nor am I saying you don't find fakes and arrogant a$$'s in TMA.


Exactly. MMA and TMA clubs attract human beings. Humans who have a history of social interaction and immersion in the morals of their culture long before their first kata or knee-bar. This is why TMA classes are not choc full of enlightened awesome people, and MMA clubs full of baby-raping tattoo'd lifers in waiting. People are just people, no matter what their hobbies, and on the whole, know right from wrong long before engaging in free time activities.

Some people see the pre-fight hype and the occasional winning celebration in poor taste, and decide that MMA is full of unpleasant, ignorant and uncultured morons. They are wrong.

Quote:
What I am saying is that MMA schools strip away the pomp and circumstance of the Arts. People all over my schools have TMA backgrounds, but our schools is run like a boxing gym more then a Dojo, that's not a bad thing simply a choice.


That is the difference between a fighting gym and a class talking about how to be a fighter. If you look at accounts of karate schools in the west in the 50's and 60's, they were fighting gyms. I am not saying that they do not exist now, but TMA in the west has changed focus, and now markets itself like this:

'Do you want to get fit? Improve your confidence? Make new friends and learn skills that could save your life, and those of your family? Then come to *insert school name* for a free trial lesson and a chat with our friendly, professional instructor(s)'

CMA, JMA, JKD, FMA, you pick a flavour, and you wont have to look hard to find a template similar to the above. That doesnt attract fighters, that attracts people who think they will benefit from learning to cope with the threat of fighting. Classes and philosophy will then reflect that. The only way the code of Bushido will help you in a fight, is if you happen to have a hardback copy that you can slam in to your attackers throat.

Quote:
I come from a Okinawan Karate background that can be traced backed to the late 1800's and before. The history and tradition, richness of the art is very appealing to me, especially as I get older and can find the beauty in all of it.


I also note that you are now training MT. Here in the UK, as well as in the Netherlands, the standard of MT available is very high, and all clubs teach the opening ceremony dance, the significance of the headband, and encourage/insist on a functional familiarity with the Thai language, at least as it relates to the art.
Doesnt stop the gyms being sweatboxes full of competetive fighters. Friendly, focussed, fighters, who would rather do an extra 3 rounds sparring than read 5 Rings, as means to the same end.

Everything written about warrior mentality, philosphy of conflict etc, is the product of what real fighters learned for themselves through fighting, and then articulated via written word.

Of course reading about others fights, and waxing lyrical about warrior code is a hell of a lot safer and more pleasant than being punched in the face and dealing with the realities of physical pain and agression, but without that, you can read, but never learn, the lessons in any warrior code; and by doing, not reading, you discover your own truths, and need not rely on vicarious wisdom.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#425929 - 03/19/10 12:24 PM Re: The Karate Kid Remake shows whats missing in MMA [Re: Kimo2007]
Kathryn Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Washington, DC
To answer the question posed by "everyone" -- what do I learn morally from MA?

I think that what I learn goes far beyond simple respect and discipline. That can be learned through sports training in general, with the right coach.

For me, walking into a dojo is to leave behind the rest of the world, to relinquish my control over my circumstances, and to take on difficult and dangerous tasks. In my school we are taught to never, never forget that we are training with deadly force, and that we or others can be hurt.

What comes of all of that? I develop that much-vaunted "center" that allows me to walk with calm and confidence in a hectic and unpredictable world. I gain self-control. I learn to bite my tongue, bide my time and wait for the right time to make a move. I learn how to deal with the difficult people that I am paid to deal with, and to do it with a measure of detachment and compassion.

I learn these things in a closed environment with a teacher who has walked the same path and understands my struggle because he has already gone through it. The dojo is a refuge for me, and if I stay away too long people begin to notice changes in me. And so if I am not training I constantly remind myself of these lessons through watching movies or reading.

I thank you for asking the question, because this is the first time I've written this down.

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#425935 - 03/19/10 04:07 PM Re: The Karate Kid Remake shows whats missing in MMA [Re: Kathryn]
MrWizard Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 5
I believe that we can incorporate some elements of ancient arts into our MMA training and in doing so, preserve some of the traditional values in martial arts. We can show utmost respect to our instructors (a thing that comes naturally if your instructor is excellent). We can remove the desire to compete with our training partners, giving a vibe of cooperation and building instead of destruction. While we focus on practicality in MMA, there is also something very practical about building a functional "dojo" around solid teamwork and training elements that we can see from the past.

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