FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 44 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
AndyLA, danacohenn, ksusanc, kellypnik123, leyinn
22904 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 15
cxt 7
trevek 6
JKogas 5
futsaowingchun 3
July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/14/14 10:49 PM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/11/14 03:36 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
12/30/13 08:32 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Prizewriter
04/16/12 02:48 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
04/12/12 11:16 AM
Throwing
by
04/23/05 10:58 PM
Recent Posts
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
Today at 12:04 PM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Dobbersky
07/29/14 05:11 AM
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:53 AM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/14/14 04:50 PM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:35 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
07/09/14 06:13 AM
Throwing
by JKogas
07/03/14 07:40 PM
Forum Stats
22904 Members
36 Forums
35564 Topics
432456 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#425816 - 03/12/10 02:10 PM GM CK Choi TAGB interview
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
http://vimeo.com/6846374

So might find the above interview interesting.

Top
#425963 - 03/21/10 10:15 AM Re: GM CK Choi TAGB interview [Re: flynch]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Interesting interview, just a shame they HAVE to get the digs in on UKTA at the end. Over 25 years on and they still have to stir...
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

Top
#425965 - 03/21/10 12:14 PM Re: GM CK Choi TAGB interview [Re: trevek]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
Originally Posted By: trevek
Interesting interview, just a shame they HAVE to get the digs in on UKTA at the end. Over 25 years on and they still have to stir...


I'm (very) biased, but, yes, North Korea is a thug state, and Gen Choi Hong Hi had no business going there. I'm also not very impressed by the NK TKD sine wave. As this GM Choi said, the original one is far better.

Top
#425972 - 03/21/10 03:45 PM Re: GM CK Choi TAGB interview [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan

I'm (very) biased, but, yes, North Korea is a thug state, and Gen Choi Hong Hi had no business going there. I'm also not very impressed by the NK TKD sine wave. As this GM Choi said, the original one is far better.


That's as may be, but he did go there. Also, the sine-wave is not 'north korean', it was introduced by Gen Choi across the whole ITF over 15 years ago. UKTA weren't doing it when TAGB founded.

TAGB founded over money, primarily, not technique.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

Top
#425973 - 03/21/10 06:09 PM Re: GM CK Choi TAGB interview [Re: trevek]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
I'd say just about all TKD feuds are over ego as well as money. That said, I support GM Choi's position, in that no self-respecting organization should have anything to do with North Korean TKD.

Top
#425974 - 03/21/10 06:44 PM Re: GM CK Choi TAGB interview [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
I'd say just about all TKD feuds are over ego as well as money. That said, I support GM Choi's position, in that no self-respecting organization should have anything to do with North Korean TKD.


100% agree. I remember when TAGB parted company with GM Hee Il Cho, it was about his price tag. However, when GTI broke away because they wanted to be with Cho (and subsequently parted company for the same reason), Dave Oliver went in print as saying GTI's decisions were all based on ego. I found it funny that TAGB were allowed to do something but then if a smaller group did it then it was 'ego'.

Still, whether or not someone should have contact with NK, I don't see why Kenny Walton had to bring the point up about leaving UKTA, because it had absolutely nothing to do with NK, or sine waves.

The thing was, it must have really hurt GM Rhee, because allegedly, when GTI first split from TAGB, they looked at joining ITF. At the seminar/meetings GM Rhee refused to come down because many of GTI had been former members of UKTA.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

Top
#425975 - 03/21/10 08:13 PM Re: GM CK Choi TAGB interview [Re: trevek]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
What was Hee Il Cho's price tag, out of curiousity? I've never met him, but he comes across as someone who's full of hot air.

Top
#425977 - 03/22/10 02:02 AM Re: GM CK Choi TAGB interview [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
I'd say just about all TKD feuds are over ego as well as money. That said, I support GM Choi's position, in that no self-respecting organization should have anything to do with North Korean TKD.
Ok I understand these sentiments. I also understand GM CK Choi's point about NK. He said that this was a fatal flaw that Gen Choi did when he decided to got there. From his vantage point his home country was torn about by a brutal civil war.
However, then does this mean that Gen. Choi should not have introduced TKD to Eastern Europe? The USSR? Red China? Where does it end? Where do you draw the line?
If it was not for the efforts of Gen Choi & his team, TKD may not even be an Olympic sport. Remember the WTF followed Gen Choi to all these countries & it was only through these efforts that the IOC made it an Olympic sport. They would not have granted official sport status if so much of the world (Communist & Socialist countries) did not adopt TKD when he introduced it there.

Now the other side of the coin, that rarely gets considered is the political side that always needs sports, music or other cultural exchanges to bring people together & warm relations between groups that do not trust each other, before they even think about having serious dialoge about tense subjects.

I am sure that by Gen Choi going to NK, he opened the eyes for some of them there, that are so very sealed off from the outside world. Likewise, now that so many of them travel to compete & teach, they of course see the real world. I do know it is working, as TKD was an actual topic of discussion as an official listed point of dialoge between the 2 Koreas, via their respective unification ministries.

Some would even say that Gen Choi was a visionary. He was after all nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize

Top
#425979 - 03/22/10 06:19 AM Re: GM CK Choi TAGB interview [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
What was Hee Il Cho's price tag, out of curiousity? I've never met him, but he comes across as someone who's full of hot air.



I've no idea but I do know that TAGB had about 10 prosperous years with him and reached a high standard in international TKD under his period as chief instructor.
On the occasions I met him, he was a very inspiring person and was very popular amongst the members. I interviewed him at one time and he spoke a lot of sense. He didn't come across as boastful or hot air. I was a blue belt at the time I interviewed him, so it might demonstarte something that a world class master would agree to an in depth interview with a coloured belt. I've heard of some lesser 'masters' who wouldn't even talk to coloured belts in uniform.

According to an interview with Dave Oliver, he priced himself out of the market, as his film work and international work limited his availability to TAGB. They decided to go to panel grading (considering a number of the senior instructors were 5-6th dan at that time, there's no reason why they shouldn't have).

The GTI split was partly about people wanting to stay with Cho, and some disatisfaction at the way they perceived his departure. A couple of years down the line GTI found his price tag rather steep as well. It was hardly surprising that when the largest TKD org in the country couldn't afford him, that a young one, one-fifth of the size, certainly wouldn't be able to.

It did cause some disillusionment about him in some areas of the membership.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

Top
#425983 - 03/22/10 05:47 PM Re: GM CK Choi TAGB interview [Re: trevek]
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
I do not know anything about the UKTA.

I know GM CK Choi and GM Rhee still communicate about Tae Kwon Do

I hope the TAGB treat GM CK Choi properly as he just did a weeks worth of seminars in the uK for them.

The key with General Choi is that everyone agreed to go to both North and South Korea for Tae kwon Do. It was only at the last minute that Gen Choi made a unilateral decision to only go to North Korea against the wishes of the other Masters and then he tried to impose his will on them. He did not respect the position and opinions of the other Masters. General Choi basically broke most of the Tenents that he had been pushing for years.


Edited by flynch (03/22/10 05:51 PM)

Top
#425984 - 03/22/10 06:21 PM Re: GM CK Choi TAGB interview [Re: flynch]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Originally Posted By: flynch
I do not know anything about the UKTA.

I know GM CK Choi and GM Rhee still communicate about Tae Kwon Do

I hope the TAGB treat GM CK Choi properly as he just did a weeks worth of seminars in the uK for them.


UKTA is GM Rhee's organisation in UK. TAGB were a breakaway from that.

I imagine TAGB will treat GM Choi well, they aren't stupid. The matter with GM Cho was after 10 years as CI. It was also over 15 years ago.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

Top
#425987 - 03/22/10 10:26 PM Re: GM CK Choi TAGB interview [Re: flynch]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: flynch
The key with General Choi is that everyone agreed to go to both North and South Korea for Tae kwon Do. It was only at the last minute that Gen Choi made a unilateral decision to only go to North Korea against the wishes of the other Masters and then he tried to impose his will on them. He did not respect the position and opinions of the other Masters. General Choi basically broke most of the Tenents that he had been pushing for years.
From my understanding the ITF was suppossed to go to both Koreas, but SK deined them permission to come. Was that not the case Mr. Flynch?
It was then that Gen Choi said well we have been welcomed or allowed to go to NK, so they went. Many of the loyal south Korean instructors living overseas found that aggreement simply not acceptable, so they did not go & started to drop out of the ITF.

Top
#425989 - 03/22/10 11:35 PM Re: GM CK Choi TAGB interview [Re: ITFunity]
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
As always ... I was not there. So the specifics of the situation I do not know. Regardless I do not think our statements are incompatible though. The important point from where I am standing is how the original master's remember the event and how they continue to relate the experience. In adddition it is important to see beyond the single event and realize how General Choi's actions were perceived not only at the time but also how they affected the original masters and their families who were in South Korea and other places around the world.

Like a pebble dropped into a quite pool the single splash may be over in an instant but the ripples continue for a long time.

It was not just the event (that was bad enough) but the lasting results which went on for years.

These actions are still being felt to this day as you well know. Some still have no time for anything related to North Korea and others are still disturbed by the actions of the leaders of the WTF. The only thing I can say ... is that at least things remain consistant all these years later.


Edited by flynch (03/22/10 11:49 PM)

Top
#425990 - 03/22/10 11:43 PM Re: GM CK Choi TAGB interview [Re: trevek]
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
Originally Posted By: trevek

UKTA is GM Rhee's organisation in UK. TAGB were a breakaway from that.


Thanks I guess I did not put that together as I tend to be more focused on the historical personnal relationships between these Tae Kwon Do people. I must say I know little about the web of orgainizations that exist today.

My understanding is that GM Rhee was a great Tae Kwon Do man and that Mr Oliver runs a good orgainization with many competant fighters and a good, quality level of original Tae Kwon Do instuction/training.


Edited by flynch (03/22/10 11:44 PM)

Top
#425999 - 03/23/10 01:44 AM Re: GM CK Choi TAGB interview [Re: flynch]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: flynch
As always ... I was not there. So the specifics of the situation I do not know. Regardless I do not think our statements are incompatible though.
Yes Sir & neither was I. However I think that it was you that once posted & I know I have read it elsewhere & heard it elsewhere that the original plan was to go to both Koreas. However SK denied them permission to come. But Gen. Choi felt that they must accept the invitation that NK extended. The way you just wrote it, seemed to imply, at least to me that it was NK only that Gen. Choi wanted to go. The rest of your post I agree for the most part.

As an historical note, Gen. Choi's political opponent, the brutal military dictator Gen Park Jung Hee was shot & killed at point blank range by his own KCIA director on 26 Oct. 1979, after 18 & 1/2 of his oppressive regime. Thinking the change of SK govt would open the door to Gen Choi again, who exiled himself to Canada in 1972, the height of the brutality of the regime, to Gen Choi & the ITF, just did not happen. As the new military dictator continued oppression, with events like the awful Kwang Ju massacre! Sadly things did not change much in SK till real democratic elections where held elcting the 1st civilan leader Kim Yong Sam. His successor Kim Dae Jung, who just passed away, was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his outreach to NK, called the Sunshine Policy. This was when TKD allowed for peaceful cultrual exchanges between the 2 Koreas starting in 2002, sadly right after Gen Choi passed away. So he never got to see the results of his dream, made possible by using TKD & the ITF as political tools to further his own political agenda that many of his loyal masters did not want to get involved with & still causes some problems today with SK
(Very complicated matters indeed)

Top
#426001 - 03/23/10 03:58 AM Re: GM CK Choi TAGB interview [Re: flynch]
trevek Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 3337
Loc: Poland
Originally Posted By: flynch


My understanding is that GM Rhee was a great Tae Kwon Do man and that Mr Oliver runs a good orgainization with many competant fighters and a good, quality level of original Tae Kwon Do instuction/training.


Indeed.

It was some of those fighters (Tony Sewell, KIm Stones) who moved away and founded GTI (Global TKD International... not to be confused with GTF).

TAGB were also the main founders and movers of TKD International, a multi-style TKD organisation.
_________________________
See how well I block your punches with my jaw!!

Supporting everyone saying "nuts to cancer"

Top
#426010 - 03/23/10 04:16 PM Re: GM CK Choi TAGB interview [Re: trevek]
flynch Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 265
ITFUnity I appreciate your view point on the value of using TKD for political purposes but I cannot condon the General's actions.

The end does not justify the means.

I just think that we cannot look at one event in isolation and critize people's actions. I see that all too much. We have to look at the totality of the information and then still realize that we were not there and in many cases can't really understand the forces at play.

I am quite sure that the General's main goal was to go to NK but I cannot say if it was the only goal. We cannot determine if he was appeasing the other master's by agreeing to go to South Korea. In addition the way you write it makes the General sound altruistic which I would say is not necessarily so.

Top
#426022 - 03/24/10 06:53 AM Re: GM CK Choi TAGB interview [Re: flynch]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: flynch
ITFUnity I appreciate your view point on the value of using TKD for political purposes but I cannot condon the General's actions.
Nor do I. Now these are sensitive & complex issues. As such they by the mere nature have no easy answers. I can truly understand the resentment & bitterness many can have towards General Choi for using TKD & the ITF to advance his political agenda &/or to fullfill his dream of a united homeland that he loved, especially when some of his loyal men were not political in nature, but Gen Choi was. He was a general, an ambasador, a founder of the ROK Army & director of army intelligence. So he would have a different viewpoint. others viewing his actions will of course judge his actions based in part by their own political views, or lack or ignorance of complex issues. I also fully understand that he put his most loyal men at risk, as well as their familes. I do not take issues like this lightly.

Originally Posted By: flynch
The end does not justify the means.
Yes, no & sometimes, depending on viewpoint, context etc.

Originally Posted By: flynch
I just think that we cannot look at one event in isolation and critize people's actions. I see that all too much. We have to look at the totality of the information and then still realize that we were not there and in many cases can't really understand the forces at play.
I agree & apolige if anything I said was interpeted wrongly as me being critical, as they are sensitive & complex issues

Originally Posted By: flynch
I am quite sure that the General's main goal was to go to NK but I cannot say if it was the only goal. We cannot determine if he was appeasing the other master's by agreeing to go to South Korea. Very good point, which I can not negate & must also consider!

In addition the way you write it makes the General sound altruistic which I would say is not necessarily so.
Yes I see your point.
I would also add that while I don't know if his motives were 100% altruistic, I could also make any arguement that he never should have used TKD as a tool for these, even if altruistic motives, as it was not just his TKD & his actions impacted others in a very serious way.
I can also argue that his introduction of original TKD gave NK a powerful propaganda tool, which can be negative.
Or I could argue that the same introduction did afford an opportunity for NKs, the most isolated place on the planet to have a view of the outside world by both hosting TKD people there & sending their people abroad, which can be positive.

It is an age old debate, do we isolate enemies & take a provactive stance or do we engage with our enemies & take a softer stance? Left vs right, liberal vs conserative, hawks vs doves, etc.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >






Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Self Defense
Offering stun guns, pepper spray, tasers and other self defense products not available in stores.

Pepper Spray
Online distributor of self defense supplies like videos, stun guns, Tasers and more.

Spy Cameras
Surveillance, Hidden Cameras, Nanny Cams, Digital Recorders, Spy Equipment, Pocket DVR's and more

Stun Gun
Wholesale Directlhy to the Public! Stun gun and Taser Guns and personal protection products. Keep your loved ones at home safe!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga