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#425412 - 02/22/10 09:01 AM TKD, tricks. and exercise drills
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Whether you practice three steps, one steps, self defense, sparring combinations, and escape drills. All these little scenario drill trainings are known as tricks. For instance when a school has a demo team and the team puts on a show they are performing a bunch of tricks. Prearranged attacks, counters and escapes to attacks.

Now a days schools can have from a few basic dozen to several hundreds if not thousands of these things.

Much like forms training to the casual observer these drills or self perfection drills look very impressive. And and to the intermediate student these drills can instill false confidence.

But these exercises did not always exist. From what I have been able to discern these new fancy/flashy drills are basically around fifty years old give or take.

Many of the Real based self defense(RBSD) arts focus on just these very drills. If you've ever seen the Israeli style Krav Maga, they are basically a scenario based art. And although they have an abundance of techniques and drills, they tend to focus on the most basic and lethal of tools in their arsenal. But can they pull it off in sparring?

Much of these drills are based on a specific attack and the follow up often concurs with the response of the assailant after you delivered the first blow. If you have trained over and over to perform a set of prearranged counters in a specific order, can you compensate for an attacker who does not follow your prearranged set of moves?

If you read about traditional hardcore karate/TKD training you never hear about the unlimited tricks they did. You hear about the constant drilling of the basics. The most essential tools from the art that will work either to hurt, restrain, or escape from an attack.

Back in the day a one step drill would probably contain no more than 3 movements. A block, a counter attack, and a take down.

Or maybe another formula a block, and a attack (death blow).

Now a day's these one steps can have up to 12 follow up attacks.

Students are constantly drilling and practicing these same techniques over and over.

But are these drills intended to be memorized for real life self defense? For me the answer is yes and no.

These self perfection drills are meant to teach attributes such as proper techniques, body mechanics, line familiarization, economy of motion. They are meant to be examples, blue prints of a much bigger puzzle. They are meant to be broken down and used in a limitless array of combination's.

However, one should consider if by practicing these drills alone are they reaching their full potential?

The best way of seeing if you are actually learning something is by testing your skill in sparring. Can you actually pull of these techniques/combination's in sparring practice? Sparring is the closest thing there is to live combat so the majority of your tools should be put into play, and you should be able to use them. If not, then it is most likely you will not be able to properly defend yourself when the time comes.

Sparring for sport and sparring for real life combat is physically no different. The techniques applied in one are interchangeable. And if you want to apply these tricks or one steps...what ever you want to call them. You must learn to spar and use your sparring as a vehicle in order to get you in position to apply the appropriate response.

For instance in a self defense situation where you are immeditely grabbed, you have the element of surprise on your side, you can pull off some sort of escape drill. However, in a scenario from which you are fully aware you are going to be attacked and connot avoid the situation. What will you do? The element of surprise is no longer yours to exploit. How are you going to get this person within range to pull off those fancy drills you practiced in class?

What if this person never throws a rear punch but decides to only throw jabs?

Will you be able to compensate for the change? Or will you just stand there and eat every jab this person hits you with? I mean how dare he, doesn't he know he is supposed to lead with a reverse punch? doesn't he know we are TKDist and not boxers...why is he throwing these jabs...time out let me take a boxing class.

I hope you guys get what I'm saying.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#425425 - 02/22/10 10:15 AM Re: TKD, tricks. and exercise drills [Re: TeK9]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
I was practising TKD in those days, so I do know of the drills. I haven't gone to a school in over a decade, so I don't know what's really going on today, but I am under the impression that TKD practitioners do drills.

I'm not sure if we're talking the same thing, but the drills are one- and two-step sparring. Again, no more than three movements, all pre-arranged. This has been true in BOTH ITF and WTF schools in those days, and they were to prepare you for real-life drills. Those real-life drills were to have you square off with a partner. When one partner attackes, the other counters with a technique of his choice. In this way, they build up their familiarity with the movements and the reacting and counter-reacting when facing an opponent.

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#425426 - 02/22/10 10:22 AM Re: TKD, tricks. and exercise drills [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
yes but where u able to actually pull off these drills durring your free sparring? That's actually kind of the point I'm trying to make.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#425428 - 02/22/10 10:57 AM Re: TKD, tricks. and exercise drills [Re: TeK9]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
I'm thinking of one particular one.

The opponent uses an instep kick, otherwise known as a roundhouse, and the person counters with a back kick or spinning back kick. I've seen that in tournaments, but I've never been in a street fight, so I can't say anything about that.

As I write this, I'm thinking of hand techniques, some of which we used to do, and some of which can be modified in combat.

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#425432 - 02/22/10 12:31 PM Re: TKD, tricks. and exercise drills [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
Yep I've done that many times in sparring. Both opponents need to be in an open stance (both facing the same direction) when the attacker kicks, you have 2 options: A or B

A: Intermediate option; attacker kicks and you slightly scoot back avoiding the kick and then counter with a spinning back kick in which you must lean into your opponent to make up the distance for scooting back to avoid the kick.

B: Advanced option; the attacker kicks and you immediately counter with a spinning back kick of your own. But instead of leaning into your opponent your leaning away. In order to create space to avoid the incoming attack. The slight hop is needed to create speed and centrifugal force.

To the casual observer option B looks as if you did some crazy advanced move. When in reality all you did was slightly hop in the air no more than an inch above ground.

I remember when I started Olympic style TKD I was jumping up and down trying to do spin kicks and counter kicks. When I was told "what are you doing? Don't you know the longer your in the air the more vulnerable to attacks you are..."
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

Top
#425433 - 02/22/10 01:14 PM Re: TKD, tricks. and exercise drills [Re: TeK9]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
Originally Posted By: TeK9
I remember when I started Olympic style TKD I was jumping up and down trying to do spin kicks and counter kicks. When I was told "what are you doing? Don't you know the longer your in the air the more vulnerable to attacks you are..."



But, if you're fast, then that is not an issue. That said, we all know high kicks aren't practical. That said, a back kick to the mid-section could be effective. I recently met a Wing Chun master who showed me his method, and he said, if I didn't kick him, he would win. Well, since I could kick him ...

I agree lots of drills are downright stupid, but there are a few effective ones. Furthermore, many drills involve hand techniques that can be useful. And I'm actually surprised there are still TKD schools that don't teach hapkido style self-defence. But, if you don't believe in kicks, then you're in the wrong art, and no drill involving the leg would work for you.

Last, but certainly not least, spinning back kicks are fun!

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#425470 - 02/23/10 12:14 AM Re: TKD, tricks. and exercise drills [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
karateka75 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 22
i got a lot of interesting information from com they show videos and have articles about kumite, tactic and strategy... its very interesting those guys really have put something together. hope that helps


Edited by MattJ (02/23/10 07:32 AM)

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#425482 - 02/23/10 01:54 AM Re: TKD, tricks. and exercise drills [Re: karateka75]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
Ummm, MODERATORS!

We either have a spambot or a troll.

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