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#425396 - 02/22/10 02:27 AM Another thug has become president of the Kukkiwon.
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
First, Kim Un-young goes to jail for embezzlement, and, now, apparently a thug has taken over as President of the Kukkiwon. And, to add insult to injury, he has named Kim Un-young as honorary chairman.

This is all from Alex Gillis' blog, and he has decided not to go for his next black-belt ranking. I wonder why.

I had been seriously thinking of going to the Kukkiwon for my 2nd Dan, but I now renounce all affiliation with that organization.

I'm so disgusted.

Top
#425403 - 02/22/10 07:04 AM Re: Another thug has become president of the Kukkiwon. [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
I personally do not feel these organizations even need to exist. To me an organization just screams business, profit, and greed. From my point of view the ITF seems to me more of a General Choi Hong Hi church spreading the word of their prophet. And now that they have split it's gotten even worse, because now they are all competing for members.

The WTF being even worse. Because they actually seem as if they hold some legitamcy on sports taekwondo and their ties to the South Korean gov. and the International Olympic Committee gives them some sort of credibility. But their business practices have been atrocious. Not only the WTF itself but it's national charters or associations representing each country which pays their fees and supports them. In the United States alone they've had to change the name of the official organization which represents USA competition due to unscrupulous practices. Parents having to pay special fee's just so their children can be cleared to participate in competition which doesn't even cover tournament fee's. Non registered schools being black balled because they refuse to be part of the WTF and so they can't have an all TKD tourny because other schools wont show up due to the politics.

Doesn't stop their either. All these organizations that halt the exchange of ideas and the differences in MA culture and tradition just because different schools representing different styles are not part of the same organizations.

To me if your part of an organization to preserve an art...fine. But the real art is not in the training methods nor in the techniques. But in the traditions and especially in the philosophy which represents the arts founder(s) point of view.

Even if you go through the motions and perform meaningless rituals it should not divide nor keep you from experiencing and appreciating what other MA's have to offer.

I for one didn't care when my Kukkikwon certificate that came in the mail 2-3 weeks later. For me it was all about receiving my black belt directly from sah bum nim in front of his kwan jang nim. Also the fact that I didn't have to pay the $250-$300 bucks for the diploma but they covered the fee in appreciation for my help. I don't even know where that piece of paper. Much like my bachelor's degree, I don't even think about it. Except that I actually know where my bachelor's degree is.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

Top
#425600 - 03/01/10 10:11 PM Re: Another thug has become president of the Kukki [Re: TeK9]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
The plot thickens.

The South Korean government has taken direct control of the Kukkiwon,, and no one with a criminal record can be president - no surprise, considering Kim went to jail for embezzlement.

But this is causing a hue and cry, as members of the WTF complain of government interferance with the "mecca of Tae Kwon Do." Check this Facebook entry for an example.

I think the WTF is quickly going to lose legitimacy, and, over time, people will just leave the WTF. This will allow an entrepreneur an opportunity to establish a new Kukkiwon somewhere outside South Korea, far from government control and, hopefully, free of criminal influence.

Of course, TKD can just wither away and die. That's possible too.

Top
#425601 - 03/02/10 01:33 AM Re: Another thug has become president of the Kukki [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
I can almost assure you that it wont happen. The WTF is backed up by the Korean government. They govern the rules of Korea's national sport. It's like their most popular commodity. Sport TKD is the most widely practice martial art/style and only growing. Not only is it the most popular in practitioners buts its Sport TKD is found in more countries than any other art. The WTF is only going to get more powerful as it's membership grows. No other organization is as big and as powerful in the world of MA. Whiles we're at it, no other sport is as powerful in terms of members.

LOL only soccer can top it, but you don't need to register in order to compete in that.

In a few weeks a local school here is going to have the first Northern California electronic tournament. Special sparring gear and computer software will be used to judge the scoring. It's actually pretty exciting. Although I'm not sure they got all the bugs out yet.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

Top
#425603 - 03/02/10 05:51 AM Re: Another thug has become president of the Kukkiwon. [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
First, Kim Un-young goes to jail for embezzlement, and, now, apparently a thug has taken over as President of the Kukkiwon. And, to add insult to injury, he has named Kim Un-young as honorary chairman.
This is all from Alex Gillis' blog, and he has decided not to go for his next black-belt ranking. I wonder why.
I had been seriously thinking of going to the Kukkiwon for my 2nd Dan, but I now renounce all affiliation with that organization.
I'm so disgusted.
Please don't be too disgusted. TKD needs people to be angry, even outraged. This then can help effect change. I see Mr. Gillis has updated his blog.

Top
#425604 - 03/02/10 06:12 AM Re: Another thug has become president of the Kukkiwon. [Re: TeK9]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: TeK9
I personally do not feel these organizations even need to exist. To me an organization just screams business, profit, and greed.
Yes & this is why I harp on the history of TKD so much. We must remember that when it all started Korea was in bad shape & they used TKD to not only make money, but to clean up their very bad image caused by such brutal human rights violations.


Originally Posted By: TeK9
From my point of view the ITF seems to me more of a General Choi Hong Hi church spreading the word of their prophet. And now that they have split it's gotten even worse, because now they are all competing for members.
While it is true that they are competing for members, we must remember that much of the emphasis on Gen Choi was used to counter the propaganda campaign that the KTA, KKW, WTF at the beheast of the SK Govt leveled at Gen Choi. If not for the ITF & Gen Choi, who would be telling the history of TKD? Plus if you ever read Gen Choi's books, his philosophy that he shared with the world is so much worth spreading imnsho

Originally Posted By: TeK9
The WTF being even worse. Because they actually seem as if they hold some legitamcy on sports taekwondo and their ties to the South Korean gov. and the International Olympic Committee gives them some sort of credibility. But their business practices have been atrocious. Not only the WTF itself but it's national charters or associations representing each country which pays their fees and supports them. In the United States alone they've had to change the name of the official organization which represents USA competition due to unscrupulous practices. Parents having to pay special fee's just so their children can be cleared to participate in competition which doesn't even cover tournament fee's. Non registered schools being black balled because they refuse to be part of the WTF and so they can't have an all TKD tourny because other schools wont show up due to the politics.
Please remember that the WTF is seperate from the KKW. In charge of the WTF is an academic, not a TKD man. He was put there because he has a stellar reputation from my understanding on having high integrity. Maybe the KKW needs the same. These problems are worldwide with TKD. It again goes back to many Korean men, often with little formal education going abroad & making good cash money spreading KMAs at a time when the MA craze was kicking in.

Originally Posted By: TeK9
Doesn't stop their either. All these organizations that halt the exchange of ideas and the differences in MA culture and tradition just because different schools representing different styles are not part of the same organizations.

To me if your part of an organization to preserve an art...fine. But the real art is not in the training methods nor in the techniques. But in the traditions and especially in the philosophy which represents the arts founder(s) point of view.
This is why it is so important to understand Gen Choi's contribution & his philosophy that he made part of TK-D

Originally Posted By: TeK9
I for one didn't care when my Kukkikwon certificate that came in the mail 2-3 weeks later. For me it was all about receiving my black belt directly from sah bum nim in front of his kwan jang nim. Also the fact that I didn't have to pay the $250-$300 bucks for the diploma but they covered the fee in appreciation for my help. I don't even know where that piece of paper. Much like my bachelor's degree, I don't even think about it. Except that I actually know where my bachelor's degree is.
Yes a certificate it only a piece of paper. Hopefully there is some hard work, sweat & knowledge backing it up, which imnsho is much more important

Top
#425605 - 03/02/10 06:21 AM Re: Another thug has become president of the Kukki [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
The South Korean government has taken direct control of the Kukkiwon, and no one with a criminal record can be president - no surprise, considering Kim went to jail for embezzlement.
But this is causing a hue and cry, as members of the WTF complain of government interferance with the "mecca of Tae Kwon Do."
I think the WTF is quickly going to lose legitimacy, and, over time, people will just leave the WTF. This will allow an entrepreneur an opportunity to establish a new Kukkiwon somewhere outside South Korea, far from government control and, hopefully, free of criminal influence.
Of course, TKD can just wither away and die. That's possible too.
I doubt TKD will die. Now as a result of the reforms put in place, the KTA, KKW & WTF are no longer led by the same person (Dr. Kim). I am not sure if many realize that the KTA has had its own share of problems as well, which is part of the source for the KKW current mess. People were arrested & convicted & presidents left in scandal as well. It all goes back to when the occupation ended & the KMAs were dominated by thugs that looked to get tough in a very tough country in order to succeed. This has been the case for far to long. The WTF is on a much better course due to reform by a non TKD academic man. Hopefully reform can reach the KTA & KKW, as without it, it looks pretty clear that the same old stuff will ust continue. There is also much infighting between the WTF & KKW.

Top
#425606 - 03/02/10 06:26 AM Re: Another thug has become president of the Kukki [Re: TeK9]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: TeK9
I can almost assure you that it wont happen. The WTF is backed up by the Korean government. They govern the rules of Korea's national sport. It's like their most popular commodity. Sport TKD is the most widely practice martial art/style and only growing. Not only is it the most popular in practitioners buts its Sport TKD is found in more countries than any other art. The WTF is only going to get more powerful as it's membership grows. No other organization is as big and as powerful in the world of MA. Whiles we're at it, no other sport is as powerful in terms of members.
LOL only soccer can top it, but you don't need to register in order to compete in that.
In a few weeks a local school here is going to have the first Northern California electronic tournament. Special sparring gear and computer software will be used to judge the scoring. It's actually pretty exciting. Although I'm not sure they got all the bugs out yet.
Yes these are all reforms brought on by the tremendous amount of corruption that existed. When scandals hit baseball, the US Congress gets involved, no different I guess from the SK national government getting involved as well. The problem for the WTF is that all the certificate money comes into the KKW

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#425609 - 03/02/10 10:26 AM Re: Another thug has become president of the Kukki [Re: ITFunity]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
There will be increasing concerns about an organization which can certify athletes for the Olympics, and which is controlled by a national government, namely, the South Korean one. No other Olympic sport is in this situation.

Top
#425615 - 03/02/10 12:34 PM Re: Another thug has become president of the Kukki [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
There will be increasing concerns about an organization which can certify athletes for the Olympics, and which is controlled by a national government, namely, the South Korean one. No other Olympic sport is in this situation.
This is a common misunderstanding, a misnomer. You do not have to be certifed by the KKW or WTF in order to compete in the Olympics. All you have to do is win your nation's trial process. You don't even have to be a BB, or do WTF (Kukki) TKD. Right now the UK is having open trials to get ready for 2012

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