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#424521 - 01/23/10 07:14 AM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: ITFunity]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
Yes Unity very good information.

The more I read and the more I post on this forum the more befuddled and confused I become. I am the most baffled by the postings of fellow TKD people. I need to really get out and visit more TKD schools to see first hand what the heck is going on out there, is TKD really as bad today as many on this forum say?

On a personal level I have no doubts that my TKD training would serve me well in a SD situation. In fact, my main concern is that I would over do it and end up in jail or get sued. Perhaps we train differently than many TKD people that post on this forum. Or maybe I have focused on the more militaristic tactics of TKD as my instructor is from Korea and taught troops SD in Korea, also I am ex military. Whatever the case I am totally miffed at the things I read on this forum regarding TKD.

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#424523 - 01/23/10 07:40 AM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: MattJ]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
Originally Posted By: MattJ
Von1 -

Front kicks to the face are allowed, and have been done quite often. Kicks to the leg/knee are also done quite often. I assume that "chops" are allowed to the face, since hammerfists are done often, and hammerfists are just closed-hand chops (same striking surface). Probably fighters are worried about breaking their fingers with chops. FWIW.



Matt


I know kicks are allowed to the face but I have watched many MMA matches and have never once witnessed a snap kick delivered right up under the chin. I believe this is not allowed because of the proximity of the throat. Also the chops to the face I am referring to would be delivered to the side of the jaw and other vital areas I need not mention, again I have never seen any of these delivered during an MMA match nor are they trained in MMA fighting. As far as breaking you fingers, if done correctly a chop is no more hazzardous than a punch. Throw a punch wrong broken hand, throw a chop wrong broken fingers.

Have you ever once witnessed a nice hard front sidekick straight to the knee in MMA? (And we all know how fast this kick can be delivered) I havenít. These examples are just the tip of the ice burg when it comes to effective TKD techniques and targets and I havenít witnessed any of them in MMA fighting, never, not once.

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#424530 - 01/23/10 10:43 AM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: von1]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Von -

Not sure what to say here.

Forrest Griffin kicked Tito Ortiz in the face with a front kick in UFC 106, so hard that it knocked Tito's mouthpiece out. Front kick has been used in other matches, too. Totally legal.

Brock Lesnar pounded Frank Mir's face (jaw and everything) with hammerfists in their first meeting - probably the single most common technique used in GnP. Too many examples to even list.

Anderson Silva repeatedly kicked Thales Leites in the knee with sidekicks in UFC 97. Sidekick not a common technique in MMA, but it is not illegal. Roundhouse kicks to the leg/knee are very common, too many to even list.

Not too mention knees and elbows to the face.

And if you check the earlier, few-rule UFC's, you will find the guys doing groin strikes, elbows to the back of the head, kicks to the kidneys, hair grabs, etc. Most of the time those things didn't work too well.

Please check your facts.

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#424542 - 01/24/10 09:12 AM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: MattJ]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
Matt:

You are correct on all accounts and I can understand your confusion towards my posts. I havenít figured out how to present my perspective in print clearly so one can understand what I am attempting to convey regarding this matter.

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#424552 - 01/24/10 03:13 PM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: XxTaexKidxX]
matxtx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 700
Loc: england
Originally Posted By: XxTaexKidxX
Why is it in the UFC or any other major fighting sport, Tae-Kwon-Do fighters are lacking in the roster. Makes me wonder if Tae-Kwon-Do would help me in my MMA journey or if it would help me in self-defense.


I will give my view as someone who trains in Taekwondo, Muay Thai and MMA.
I do not believe Taekwondo will help you as much for MMA as doing ,Muay Thai or even Boxing. Thats not because Taekwondo is bad or anything it is just harder to adapt technicaly into MMA in regards to matching it up with grappling on the ground and standing both defensivly and attacking. The way kicking is done,the stances taken and the tactics used when learning to fight for Taekwondo puts it further away from the stances ,tactics and type of kicking that is needed For MMA. The better at MMA you want to be the further from TKD you will have to go get. None of the top ranking fighters, who its best to look at to see whats working, use TKD or use it alot. Anderson Silva trained in it ages ago though now he uses or adapts MT for his stand up.
Its not just the actual styles its the training methods that are borrowed too. Taewkondo training methods dont involve all thats needed for a full stand up. Elbows and knees are not trained in the c urriculum to the level of Muay Thai in relation to kicking and for fighting full contact. Elbows and knees in TKD are are trained just not to a high or intense enough level to use in a ring fight against another skilled person.

Adapting TKD could be done its just no ones done it yet to a high level and there's no need to as Muay Thai is easier to adapt. Also it would end up looking or being so similar that people would then argue its not TKD anymore.

Thats my honest view.
I know to get better I will have to stop doing TKD yet I dont think its useless and I enjoy it. It just doesnt fit into MMA easily.
----
My view on SD is that its still a fight of some kind.. a fight to get away or to just survive or whatever. So elements of fighting help and come into play. Being able to fight and useing some of the dirtier stuff from TKD can be of use.
A good ring or cage fighter useing the apparently 'deadly' stuff from TKD in SD will fair better that a non fighter trying to use the 'deadly' stuff from TKD in SD.
Just my personal view.
_________________________
I point my saxaphone at the rare Booted Gorilla.

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#424878 - 02/10/10 02:09 PM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: matxtx]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
I'd agree that TKD often is not practical, but I have seen a Youtube video of a TKD black belt using a spinning kick and knocking a Muay Thai boxer down, for a knockout.

I would also say that an axe kick can overwhelm a knee or elbow strike, which would give the advantage to the black belt.

That said, a true martial artist should learn all tools, and adapt his personal training accordingly. That said, a beginner should master ONE art, then explore, or he could be going from place to place, without really learning anything anywhere.

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#424885 - 02/10/10 10:09 PM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
I'd agree that TKD often is not practical, but........

........, a true martial artist should learn all tools, and adapt his personal training accordingly.
TKD is often not practical because more often than not it is not trained in a practical manner. The 1st line above is the fault of trainers & the methods that they emphasize, which in a simplistic way of looking at it is the ITF concentrates on patterns & the WTF concentrates on sports rules that do not allow so many techniques.
The 2nd line above is almost the exact words of Gen Choi, the founder of original TKD, who stated learn as many of the 3,200 fundamental movements & apply them to the situation at hand, BUT train under as realistic conditions

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#424887 - 02/11/10 01:13 AM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: ITFunity]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
Quote:
TKD is often not practical because more often than not it is not trained in a practical manner.


I would agree, and I would say both ITF and WTF are equally at fault.


Quote:
The 2nd line above is almost the exact words of Gen Choi, the founder of original TKD, who stated learn as many of the 3,200 fundamental movements & apply them to the situation at hand, BUT train under as realistic conditions


On this, I would quote Bruce Lee, who said it's not daily increase; it's daily decrease, as in decrease the number of useless techniques and concentrate on a few basic but effective ones.

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#424928 - 02/12/10 12:40 PM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
Fruitloopy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/28/01
Posts: 67
Loc: The Great White North
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
Quote:
TKD is often not practical because more often than not it is not trained in a practical manner.


I would agree, and I would say both ITF and WTF are equally at fault.


Quote:
The 2nd line above is almost the exact words of Gen Choi, the founder of original TKD, who stated learn as many of the 3,200 fundamental movements & apply them to the situation at hand, BUT train under as realistic conditions


On this, I would quote Bruce Lee, who said it's not daily increase; it's daily decrease, as in decrease the number of useless techniques and concentrate on a few basic but effective ones.

Nice post, I agree.
_________________________
T. White

http://www.oshawamartialarts.com

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#425106 - 02/16/10 11:18 PM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: Fruitloopy]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
David Loiseau's
Bas Rutton
Anderson Silva
Cung Le
Stephen Bonner
Maurice Smith

Just a few champs of MMA sport who are all black belts in TKD. And just happen to be kickers in the sport of MMA.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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