FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 34 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Bartfast, ZapEm, AndyLA, danacohenn, ksusanc
22906 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 8
AndyLA 5
futsaowingchun 4
Ed_Morris 4
VDJ 2
August
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
New Topics
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
08/19/14 05:22 AM
Chi Sao demonstration
by futsaowingchun
08/14/14 10:57 PM
Decent Fight channel
by FrankyFruits
08/07/14 09:19 PM
2014 European Championships Cadets Athens: Videos
by ergees
08/07/14 10:00 AM
Life goes on....
by Dobbersky
08/07/14 05:59 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
Applied center line theory
by futsaowingchun
07/28/14 08:55 AM
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/14/14 10:49 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
Recent Posts
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ed_Morris
Yesterday at 09:58 PM
The Karate punch
by Ed_Morris
Yesterday at 09:27 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
08/19/14 05:22 AM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by VDJ
08/15/14 05:46 PM
Chi Sao demonstration
by futsaowingchun
08/14/14 10:57 PM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Dobbersky
08/11/14 05:03 AM
Decent Fight channel
by FrankyFruits
08/07/14 09:19 PM
2014 European Championships Cadets Athens: Videos
by ergees
08/07/14 10:00 AM
Life goes on....
by Dobbersky
08/07/14 05:59 AM
Forum Stats
22906 Members
36 Forums
35571 Topics
432477 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#425170 - 02/17/10 05:31 PM Re: My take on the TKD world and its controversies [Re: ITFunity]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
Let's face it, ITF TKD can be just as silly. The last ITF place I was at was a farce. The so-called grandmaster had lost his heart in the subject, his sparring patterns were awkward, and his students looked down on him. In fact, he bought over one of the better schools in the locale and ran it into the ground.

So, yes, WTF has been watered down, but ITF isn't that much better.

Top
#425171 - 02/17/10 07:38 PM Re: My take on the TKD world and its controversies [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
Let's face it, ITF TKD can be just as silly. The last ITF place I was at was a farce. The so-called grandmaster had lost his heart in the subject, his sparring patterns were awkward, and his students looked down on him. In fact, he bought over one of the better schools in the locale and ran it into the ground. So, yes, WTF has been watered down, but ITF isn't that much better.
Ok not sure where I pointed any finger at the WTF, or stated the ITF was not as watered down, but be that as it may, I am not sure you were at an ITF school. Gen Choi promoted only 7 people to GM, which for the ITF is 9th degree. Since his passing only about 4 others haqve made it to 9th dan until the last year, when about a dozen of the most senior 8th Dans were promoted by the various ITFs.
So can you explain how this school you had experience was an ITF school?

Top
#425221 - 02/18/10 01:22 PM Re: My take on the TKD world and its controversies [Re: ITFunity]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
Originally Posted By: ITFunity
I am not sure you were at an ITF school. Gen Choi promoted only 7 people to GM, which for the ITF is 9th degree. Since his passing only about 4 others haqve made it to 9th dan until the last year, when about a dozen of the most senior 8th Dans were promoted by the various ITFs.
So can you explain how this school you had experience was an ITF school?


I've been thinking about this myself. That last school I mentioned, the grandmaster called himself an 8th dan, but I've been wondering how he got it. I do know he was in financial trouble, and he did run a formerly good school into the ground, so maybe he was just a fraud.

I will say, however, that he did definitely have a TKD background, and he definitely was a black belt, because I know other members of his family. But, as to whether he was an 8th dan or even 7th dan, well, that I don't know.

I'm not even sure how anyone can say this school is an ITF school or non-ITF school, beccause, unlike WTF, there's no proper definition for ITF schools.

Top
#425229 - 02/18/10 03:36 PM Re: My take on the TKD world and its controversies [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
I've been thinking about this myself. That last school I mentioned, the grandmaster called himself an 8th dan, but I've been wondering how he got it. I do know he was in financial trouble, and he did run a formerly good school into the ground, so maybe he was just a fraud. I will say, however, that he did definitely have a TKD background, and he definitely was a black belt, because I know other members of his family. But, as to whether he was an 8th dan or even 7th dan, well, that I don't know.
I'm not even sure how anyone can say this school is an ITF school or non-ITF school, beccause, unlike WTF, there's no proper definition for ITF schools.

No actually you have this backwards. A school can not affiliate to the WTF, onloy member nations can. A school can buy a WTF flag & plaque from many MA retailers, but they are just purchasing an item from a store & then hanging it in there school on their own.
Now it is next to impossible to buy an ITF flag or plaque. An ITF Plaque is a numbered plaque that indicates an authorized school affiliated to the ITF, as individual schools can & must register with the ITF. If they do not have that serial numbered plaque, unique to each school, BB applications can not be processed, as it is a required item that must be filled in on the application itself. of course the all important yearly dues must also be paid up to date & I can tell you they do check.
Also BBs must be registered to compete in an official ITF tournament, especially on the world & international stage. One must also have the serial numbered ITF BB cert from current rank to go to the next rank, unless you are a transfer member.
So the ITF is very highly standardized. It is like a network of linked schools, all trying to do the same syllabus, more or less, with the same standard & precise movement. Instrictors must also attend international courses to stay up to date & qualify for prmotion.

None of this exists within the WTF. The WTF is merely a sports governing body for the Olympic sport of TKD. Other than the unique rules, there is little that unites a syllabus or demands a common standard.

The KKW does have a textbook & numerous courses, as well as frequent Dan testings on site. How much attention they place to a standardization, I can not speak to. Maybe someone else can address that.

It seems that if a school simply does the ITF or ChonJi forms, also called Chang Hon patterns, they most people think they are ITF. This is simly not the case, as many of the schools would not even have the proper ITF dobok, issue ITF BB certs, compete in & attend official ITF events, but they don't move in the required exact standard

Top
#425232 - 02/18/10 04:01 PM Re: My take on the TKD world and its controversies [Re: ITFunity]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
There are at least 3 seperate ITF organizations, and each seem to hate the other the way South Korea hates the North. So ITF is definitely not standardized.

To further along that argument, ANYONE can call himself an ITF grandmaster - no one has a monopoly or copyright on the phrase, "International Taekwondo Federation".

Top
#425235 - 02/18/10 04:52 PM Re: My take on the TKD world and its controversies [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
There are at least 3 seperate ITF organizations, and each seem to hate the other the way South Korea hates the North. So ITF is definitely not standardized.
Yes of course there are 3 ITFs. I am not sure if I would agree 100% with the N&S Korea analogy, but I see your point. SK is vary wary of NK & vice versa. However the ITFs even though there are some changes, they are few & minor, but the divide has started & will continue to widen. But few will notice much difference now

Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
To further along that argument, ANYONE can call himself an ITF grandmaster - no one has a monopoly or copyright on the phrase, "International Taekwondo Federation".
Actually there are several lawsuits & trademark protections around the world & in some places people are being forced in court or threaten by same not to use the name. You are again correct that anyone can call themselves a ITF GM, but only 9th dans have the title of GM in the ITF. That is their rule, so if someone doesn't follow it, while that is their option, it is a red flag that they are not an official registered ITF school. So maybe I should have made my point more clearer, sorry, but to me, my definition of an ITF school is 1 that is restired with a serial numbered affiliation plaque showing that they are an authorized school of the ITF, they wear the unique ITF dobok that joins in the middle either with a zipper or velcro & has the distinctive black trim for BBs & then for 4th degree certified international instructors & above, they wear the patch, issue an ITF cert signed by a current ITF president, compete under ITF tournament rules, including in the up to 5 categories of competition, moving in the required manner & follow at least most of the standard syllabus, as truth be told, no 1, myself included can or does do everything to the T
So I think my definition is different than yours. how do you define ITF?

Top
#425236 - 02/18/10 05:05 PM Re: My take on the TKD world and its controversies [Re: ITFunity]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
How do I define ITF? I have no idea, because I never really thought about it. But, if there are 3 seperate organizations, which organization's registration would you require? If my school is registered with only one, but not the other two, would that be OK? Or, if it's not registered but it has fractured and, with other ITF schools form a fourth organization with their own registration, would they then become ITF schools?What if you and I form our own fifth ITF organization and register ourselves? Would we be ITF?

Registration means nothing.

Top
#425240 - 02/18/10 06:06 PM Re: My take on the TKD world and its controversies [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
How do I define ITF? I have no idea, because I never really thought about it. But, if there are 3 seperate organizations, which organization's registration would you require? If my school is registered with only one, but not the other two, would that be OK? Or, if it's not registered but it has fractured and, with other ITF schools form a fourth organization with their own registration, would they then become ITF schools?What if you and I form our own fifth ITF organization and register ourselves? Would we be ITF? Registration means nothing.
Ok if you don't have any idea of how to define the ITF, I guess this discussion has ran its course. As far as your questions go, I would acknowldge any of the 3 ITFs as ITF, currently. 4th group of course would not be ITF, but they may be ITF like, similiar to the UITF, ICTF & the USTF. if we did a 5th, it also wouldn't qualify as an ITF, but may be another ITF like group or spin off. The determination to me would depend on how close each group keeps to the syllabus.
To me registration is the best indication that a school is an up to date, participating ITF school, nothing more. Wouldn't really know what else could be the measure or critera other than what I posted. So we appear to agree to disagree, which is fine
wink

Top
#425265 - 02/19/10 06:42 PM Re: My take on the TKD world and its controversies [Re: ITFunity]
TaekwonDoFan Offline
Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 271
There seem to be at least four, if not five ITF organizations, all purporting to bow to General Choi Hong Hi as their deity.

So which one of these would be legit???


Edited by TaekwonDoFan (02/19/10 06:43 PM)

Top
#425271 - 02/19/10 08:19 PM Re: My take on the TKD world and its controversies [Re: TaekwonDoFan]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: TaekwonDoFan
There seem to be at least four, if not five ITF organizations, all purporting to bow to General Choi Hong Hi as their deity. So which one of these would be legit???
While I take exception to your use of the word deity, as that indicates something above man. To me, gen Choi was a great man, with many flaws, but he accomplished so much & many today have him to thank for what they do in TKD. If not for his drive, dedication, patriotism & ambition, TKD may not have become what it has today. Surely it would not have been named TKD.

Given that, there are of course the splits that resulted in 3 ITFs. There is also the USTF, led by 1 of the 7 that gen Choi promoted to 9th Dan GM, which remained deperate from the ITF after Gen Choi passed away. There then is the UITF which was established by another 1 of the 7 people Gen Choi promoted to the highest level (IX Dan GM). We also can count the ICTF which was formed by some of the pioneers of TKD & is now led by a master from the ITF.

IMHO they are all legit. Is there any that you do not think are legit? What do you mean by legit? All 6 are legitimate organizations that provide benefits to their membership.

Top
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >






Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Fight Videos
Night club fight footage and street fights captured with the world's first bouncer spy cam

How to Matrix!
Learn ten times faster with new training method. Learn entire arts for as little as $10 per disk.

Self Defense
Stun guns, pepper spray, Mace and self defense products. Alarms for personal and home use.

TASER MC26C
Stop An Urban Gorilla: Get 2 FREE TASER M26C Replacement Air Cartridges With Each New TASER M26C!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga