FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 37 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
ksusanc, kellypnik123, leyinn, Ron_Cooley, businns
22902 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 11
trevek 6
cxt 5
JKogas 5
futsaowingchun 2
July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
New Topics
centerline concepts
by futsaowingchun
07/14/14 10:49 PM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/11/14 03:36 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
10 San Sik drills-Wing Chun's foundation
by futsaowingchun
06/30/14 11:20 AM
"Ip Man" and "Ip Man 2" the movies.
by TaekwonDoFan
06/30/14 11:02 AM
Iaido movements speed
by TooNice
04/14/14 01:47 PM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
12/30/13 08:32 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Prizewriter
04/16/12 02:48 PM
Recent Posts
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
16 minutes 0 seconds ago
centerline concepts
by Dobbersky
07/18/14 06:14 AM
language of syllabus
by trevek
07/14/14 04:50 PM
Gi or no Gi Grappling?
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:38 AM
MMA - A passing Fad
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:35 AM
Anderson Silva - Leg Break
by Dobbersky
07/09/14 06:13 AM
Throwing
by JKogas
07/03/14 07:40 PM
10 San Sik drills-Wing Chun's foundation
by futsaowingchun
06/30/14 11:20 AM
"Ip Man" and "Ip Man 2" the movies.
by TaekwonDoFan
06/30/14 11:02 AM
Forget all that health stuff
by TaekwonDoFan
06/29/14 03:18 AM
Forum Stats
22902 Members
36 Forums
35563 Topics
432447 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#424386 - 01/15/10 12:58 AM MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do
XxTaexKidxX Offline
Phantom
Newbie

Registered: 01/13/10
Posts: 15
Why is it in the UFC or any other major fighting sport, Tae-Kwon-Do fighters are lacking in the roster. Makes me wonder if Tae-Kwon-Do would help me in my MMA journey or if it would help me in self-defense.
_________________________
No Sweat; No Determination; No Determination; No power; No Power; No Victory; No Victory, Who's To Blame Other Than You~.

Top
#424387 - 01/15/10 08:23 AM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: XxTaexKidxX]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
I have made my opinion (thats all it is) clear on what self-defense is and what fighting is. Basically Martial Arts teach you how to fight, and I don't think fighting = self-defence. I don't want to repeat myself on the forums everytime, and I don't want to de-rail the thread so I'll leave it there. Anyone wants to talk about this with me please PM me.

Anyway, to your main question:

Tradtional Martial Arts in relation to Mixed Martial Arts are like the Amazon Rainforest. There is a lot of great stuff there that has yet to be discovered, and it can have a lot of different uses for people.

Human Nature dictates that more often than not, people take the easy road. I'm not saying MMA is easy by any stretch, but most people want to imitate, not innovate. By that I mean most MMA schools today teach a combination of Wrestling, Muay Thai, BJJ and boxing. A lot of people are happy doing that, they don't "think outside the box" and look at other TMA and see if there is any thing or worth to be added to MMA.

I think there may be something of worth in the kicking methods of TKD to someone studying MMA. However, if it were me I would have a few problems actually doing this:

i) To me, the strengths of TKD are it's kick ability and footwork. If you went to a TKD class in terms of adding to your MMA game, you would be better to learn kicking/footwork drills and putting these in to practice in sparring IMHO.

However, most TKD schools will make you do a lot of stuff that won't be of much use in MMA, like forms, step-sparring and "self defence" techniques. So you have to ask yourself would it be better to develop kicking and footwork in a school that doesn't work those superfluous (in your situation) things? I mean, would it be better to go to a Kickboxing/Muay Thai/San da club instead of TKD?

ii) Learning TKD to the point where you would develop great kicking/footwork would take a lot of time and effort, and this may be to the detriment of your MMA study.

iii) In the context of fighting, you have to think about how important kicking is as a skill. Again, and this is just me, I rate kicking as the least important skill in terms of unarmed fighting. So kicking, and by extension, TKD, wouldn't be a priority for me.

I know there are TKD schools out there who train other ranges apart from kicking, like punching and grappling, but IMO there are better systems (i.e. boxing and freestyle wrestling) to learn those skills than TKD.





Edited by Prizewriter (01/15/10 09:32 AM)
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

Top
#424388 - 01/15/10 10:46 AM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: Prizewriter]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Prize gave some good answers. Google David Loiseau's MMA fights, though. He is someone that uses a lot of TKD in his MMA.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#424402 - 01/16/10 10:01 AM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: XxTaexKidxX]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
Originally Posted By: XxTaexKidxX
Why is it in the UFC or any other major fighting sport, Tae-Kwon-Do fighters are lacking in the roster. Makes me wonder if Tae-Kwon-Do would help me in my MMA journey or if it would help me in self-defense.


Personal opinion only,
The main problem I see with Tae Kwon Do as applied to UFC type fighting is the same problem you will find with many fighting systems that attempt to compete using different competition rules than what that fighting system was set up for.

Many people will argue my next point but I am convinced that I am correct in my assessment. TKD is considered to be a hard style fighting system when it is taught correctly meaning that many of the targets that would prove to be useful in real SD applications are eliminated by rules for competitions. Now one will argue that this applies to all MA and this would be correct. The problem with TKD is that when you eliminate most of these targets there isn’t much left that makes for entertaining competition. Competitions utilize many of TKD”s weaker aspects for the sake of safety. Karate and other hard style fighting systems face this dilemma also and do not show case well in UFC fighting. You will not see any of the main weapons of these arts because it simply cannot be done safely. These same hard style-fighting systems suffer when it comes to there own competitions; many consider them boring to watch myself included. All this has contributed to the UFC”s success and the misunderstanding that this type of fighting is the most affective SD.

Just a couple examples,
Chops to vital areas such as neck and face.
Kicks to vital areas such as knees and the list goes on and on. However you can apply the main weapons of many fighting styles safely (the take down) Judo, wrestling, BJJ ect.
For striking you can safely apply boxing, but many of TKD”S and Karate’s main weapons and targets are off limits.

Top
#424412 - 01/16/10 07:40 PM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: von1]
EarlWeiss Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 322
Perhaps because the vast majority of "TKD" people fight WTF rules which is a recipe for disaster in MMA unless you radicaly change your training. As noted, there are some with TKD Training. I believe Stepahn Bonner was another. He was also a golden Gloves champ and a Carlson Gracie Student.

Top
#424423 - 01/17/10 10:18 AM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: EarlWeiss]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
Originally Posted By: EarlWeiss
Perhaps because the vast majority of "TKD" people fight WTF rules which is a recipe for disaster in MMA unless you radicaly change your training. As noted, there are some with TKD Training. I believe Stepahn Bonner was another. He was also a golden Gloves champ and a Carlson Gracie Student.



The correct statement would be that many TKD people compete WTF style that doesn’t mean we fight WTF style. You assume much. You assume that people that compete WTF rules do not train to fight as other TKD people and that is flat wrong. We train every aspect of TKD and also incorporate techniques from other arts.

Top
#424424 - 01/17/10 11:21 AM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: EarlWeiss]
von1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 260
Originally Posted By: EarlWeiss
Perhaps because the vast majority of "TKD" people fight WTF rules which is a recipe for disaster in MMA unless you radicaly change your training. As noted, there are some with TKD Training. I believe Stepahn Bonner was another. He was also a golden Gloves champ and a Carlson Gracie Student.



Regarding Stephn Bonner you are correct which proves my point. How many effective TKD techniques have you ever seen him use in the ring ( NONE) they are simply not allowed and for good reason. He may throw an occasional TKD kick here and there but the rules of UFC are geared more towards back yard brawling than militaristic SD that most hard style fighting systems teach. This is why these styles will never show case well in back yard brawling situations. TKD”s and other hard style fighting systems most effective targets are eliminated by rules. Many are even eliminated on the street by law unless under extreme circumstances. Many schools are not even teaching them because the instructors have ignored them for sake of sport (this includes all factions of TKD not just WTF schools) or the instructors don’t know them well enough to teach them. When the proper techniques and targets are taught TKD is an extremely dangerous SD art but you take these away and one is not left with much. A simple jumping snap kick to the chin is easy to set up, quick, and easy to deliver, but I assume it is not allowed in UFC fighting, for I have yet to see anyone use it in UFC fighting, and this kick is not even one of TKD”S best weapons.


Edited by von1 (01/17/10 11:26 AM)

Top
#424448 - 01/19/10 08:02 AM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: von1]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Von1 -

Front kicks to the face are allowed, and have been done quite often. Kicks to the leg/knee are also done quite often. I assume that "chops" are allowed to the face, since hammerfists are done often, and hammerfists are just closed-hand chops (same striking surface). Probably fighters are worried about breaking their fingers with chops. FWIW.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#424484 - 01/21/10 10:14 AM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: von1]
ITFunity Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 2053
Originally Posted By: von1
Originally Posted By: EarlWeiss
Perhaps because the vast majority of "TKD" people fight WTF rules which is a recipe for disaster in MMA unless you radicaly change your training. As noted, there are some with TKD Training. I believe Stepahn Bonner was another. He was also a golden Gloves champ and a Carlson Gracie Student.

The correct statement would be that many TKD people compete WTF style that doesn’t mean we fight WTF style. You assume much. You assume that people that compete WTF rules do not train to fight as other TKD people and that is flat wrong. We train every aspect of TKD and also incorporate techniques from other arts.
I believe both staements have truth in them. Just because you may compete in WTF rules tournaments, does not mean your training lacks real fighting or good SD training. Unfortunately the overwhelming majority of the schools that teach TKD do sadly concentrate far too much on sports matches. That being said, any type of rules that lack realistic conditions just does not IMNSHO prepare someone for real world fighting, it could even be somewhat counter-productive in some aspects & instances.
That being said we must know the real history of TKD. Since it is very clear that it comes from karate & that the Koreans hated the Japanese, there was a concentrated effort to be different from Japanese karate. In the ROK Army, soldiers under the command of Gen. Choi devised what was a mix of the fighting systems available at the time. They called this new system they were developing TKD. They used the name long before anyone else did.
Another faction in the civilian side, led by GM Lee Chong Woo, moved away from their karate roots using new sports rules 1st developed in the Jidokwan for much the same reason; to be different from the hated Japanese & their karate. Thus the emphasis on sport vs SD.
The more away from SD became more apparent when the commercialism hit TKD big time, as many Koreans moved from a poor developing homeland where freedom did not exist. They set up dojangs around the world, becoming SK's 1st export. SK set up a whole scale support & development system back home to facilitate this, unlike any other government in history. The official exporting of TKD instructors started in Dec of 1962 when Col. Nam Tae Hi, the co-founder of the OhDokwan, the military gym, was sent to SV to train south Vietnamese troops for the war. he stayed there for a whole year, with some 700 Korean TKD instrcutors being sent there over the course of the war.
In addition to the commercialization of TKD, the Karate Kid & Ninja Turtle movies opened TKD & the MAs as a whole to kids, forever changing the scope of the training. Likewise insurance regulations further soften TKD's training. The factory like output of BBs produced far too many who did not have a good grasp on real SD skills, which in turn further watered down the training, helping on a large scale to create the need for MMAs training. It is sad, given the history of TKD, but that is reality.
This watering down & softening of TKD is not limited to any style or group, as it has had the same effect on other MAs as well. Just visit as many as you can in your area & any area you may travel too & you will see what is all too obvious. However some common sense does seem to indicate that if the little fighting you may do, is further hampered by rules that less likely reflect actual combat on the street, then your real life SD skills will suffer, JMNSHO
In addition, all 3 ITFs are doing some type of full contact fighting. They are open to all TKD & MAists, regardless of affiliation. maybe this will help, who knows


Edited by ITFunity (01/21/10 10:15 AM)

Top
#424511 - 01/22/10 02:07 PM Re: MMA and Tae-Kwon-Do [Re: ITFunity]
Fruitloopy Offline
Member

Registered: 12/28/01
Posts: 67
Loc: The Great White North
ITFunity,

That's probably one of the best posts you have ever written.
_________________________
T. White

http://www.oshawamartialarts.com

Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >






Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Fight Videos
Night club fight footage and street fights captured with the world's first bouncer spy cam

How to Matrix!
Learn ten times faster with new training method. Learn entire arts for as little as $10 per disk.

Self Defense
Stun guns, pepper spray, Mace and self defense products. Alarms for personal and home use.

TASER MC26C
Stop An Urban Gorilla: Get 2 FREE TASER M26C Replacement Air Cartridges With Each New TASER M26C!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga