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#424277 - 01/05/10 01:39 PM WARNING! Very stupid beginner question!
WadoNovice Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/10/05
Posts: 9
Loc: England
Hi

I went to my first Aikido class last night. It was with the Ki Society, so the first hour was all Ki training stuff. I got confused within the first 5 minutes and it only went downhill from there. To help stop my next class from going the same way, I really need to clarify where my one-point is.

I do karate and unfortunately we don't really do any ki training. But I had sort of got the idea that it was between the spine and the navel and about 2 inches below the navel. Roughly my centre of gravity. I know it's bad to start something new with preconceived ideas (especially when they are incorrect!)

But in the aikido class the instructor told me to focus at a point mid-way between my hip and knee and about 2 inches away from my leg. (Outside my body? I asked about that and was told that only human minds feel the need to label certain atoms and energy as our own - the universe doesn't make such distinctions) That was when we were standing up straight, feet together. Things got even more confusing when we sat down! I asked if the one-point was still hovering over my thigh but apparently it was now on the ground. I didn't ask _where_ on the ground because I was feeling a bit defeated by this stage.

So I guess what I would like to know is:

Where is my one-point when I am sitting in seiza?

Is there a 'Ladybird' book on Aikido? (for children and/or idiots) Preferably with pictures?

Are some people just too stupid to do Aikido? (Maybe some of us should just stick to running around like lunatics and hitting things)

I'm sorry for asking you all a very stupid beginners question.

C

Top
#424300 - 01/06/10 03:45 PM Re: WARNING! Very stupid beginner question! [Re: WadoNovice]
LifesFist Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 127
Loc: Above Is Heaven, Down Is Earth
Martial art is akward thing for begginers. Later you'll see things more clearly and be able to apply them as tought or as necassary
_________________________
Fellow Of Life

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#424406 - 01/16/10 05:12 PM Re: WARNING! Very stupid beginner question! [Re: WadoNovice]
katana Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/30/04
Posts: 14
Loc: england,uk
Originally Posted By: WadoNovice
Hi

I went to my first Aikido class last night. It was with the Ki Society, so the first hour was all Ki training stuff. I got confused within the first 5 minutes and it only went downhill from there. To help stop my next class from going the same way, I really need to clarify where my one-point is.

I do karate and unfortunately we don't really do any ki training. But I had sort of got the idea that it was between the spine and the navel and about 2 inches below the navel. Roughly my centre of gravity. I know it's bad to start something new with preconceived ideas (especially when they are incorrect!)

But in the aikido class the instructor told me to focus at a point mid-way between my hip and knee and about 2 inches away from my leg. (Outside my body? I asked about that and was told that only human minds feel the need to label certain atoms and energy as our own - the universe doesn't make such distinctions) That was when we were standing up straight, feet together. Things got even more confusing when we sat down! I asked if the one-point was still hovering over my thigh but apparently it was now on the ground. I didn't ask _where_ on the ground because I was feeling a bit defeated by this stage.

So I guess what I would like to know is:

Where is my one-point when I am sitting in seiza?

Is there a 'Ladybird' book on Aikido? (for children and/or idiots) Preferably with pictures?

Are some people just too stupid to do Aikido? (Maybe some of us should just stick to running around like lunatics and hitting things)

I'm sorry for asking you all a very stupid beginners question.

C


your centre and (one point) where your ki resides is where you described. although i trained traditional aikido not ki society aikido, not sure what instructor is referring to about naming atoms etc sounds a bit quantum physics for me. ki is your life force and most technique is directed here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aikido take a look at ki section.

train safe

Top
#431012 - 12/01/10 09:56 PM Re: WARNING! Very stupid beginner question! [Re: WadoNovice]
Th3_Pun1sH3R Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/20/08
Posts: 8
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: WadoNovice
But in the aikido class the instructor told me to focus at a point mid-way between my hip and knee and about 2 inches away from my leg. (Outside my body? I asked about that and was told that only human minds feel the need to label certain atoms and energy as our own - the universe doesn't make such distinctions) That was when we were standing up straight, feet together. Things got even more confusing when we sat down! I asked if the one-point was still hovering over my thigh but apparently it was now on the ground. I didn't ask _where_ on the ground because I was feeling a bit defeated by this stage.

So I guess what I would like to know is:

Where is my one-point when I am sitting in seiza?

Is there a 'Ladybird' book on Aikido? (for children and/or idiots) Preferably with pictures?

Are some people just too stupid to do Aikido? (Maybe some of us should just stick to running around like lunatics and hitting things)

I'm sorry for asking you all a very stupid beginners question.

C
There are no stupid questions. Just not very well thought out lines of inquiry. wink

I think the instructor might have been confusing the seika-no-tanden - which is what Ki Soc. generally refer to when they say "one point" and your actual center of gravity - which changes depending on how your body is positioned in relation to 3D space.

The seika-no-tanden, or tanden (abbr.), (or dantien in Chinese), is a "reference point" that is 4 fingers width below your navel and approx. 1 fist width inside your body.

Aikido is in effect, the real basic stuff you (should) learn to do before you even learn to punch, kick or throw. Understanding how your dantien drives movement, or how power is generated thru your legs, controlled by the waist/middle and manifested in the hands forms the basis of nearly every Asian martial art.

Top
#431014 - 12/02/10 05:44 AM Re: WARNING! Very stupid beginner question! [Re: Th3_Pun1sH3R]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Good points, the only thing I would add is that from my Qi Gong studies the Chinese identify several Dantian in the body (e.g. Upper Dantian, lower Dantian). When people mention Dantian they usually refer to the middle Dantian, which is similar to the Hara.
_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#431015 - 12/02/10 10:24 AM Re: WARNING! Very stupid beginner question! [Re: Prizewriter]
iaibear Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: upstate New York
<< Aikido is in effect, the real basic stuff you (should) learn to do before you even learn to punch, kick >>
Punch and kick in Aikido?

Top
#431022 - 12/02/10 03:12 PM Re: WARNING! Very stupid beginner question! [Re: iaibear]
Kathryn Offline
Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Washington, DC
I've never heard of that! Please don't feel stupid for asking.

My general understanding is that the ephemeral "center" lies between the navel and hip region, but some put it near the navel.
_________________________
Be nice, until it's time to not be nice.

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#431023 - 12/02/10 05:13 PM Re: WARNING! Very stupid beginner question! [Re: Kathryn]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
I've seen some punching and kicking in Aikido demonstrations but punching and kicking weren't part of Aikido (as I was taught it). Any punching and kicking that was taught was purely from the point of view of giving uke a few more arrows in his quiver. Kicking and punching were used in my old classes public demonstrations where uke would punch/kick tori. Tori never punched or kicked, they only reacted to those attacks from the uke.

Here's an example of what I refer to. Uke attacks with kicks and Tori (Christian Tissier) responds:

_________________________
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

Top
#431025 - 12/02/10 05:51 PM Re: WARNING! Very stupid beginner question! [Re: Prizewriter]
Th3_Pun1sH3R Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/20/08
Posts: 8
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: Prizewriter
Good points, the only thing I would add is that from my Qi Gong studies the Chinese identify several Dantian in the body (e.g. Upper Dantian, lower Dantian). When people mention Dantian they usually refer to the middle Dantian, which is similar to the Hara.

Yes, but I didn't want to confuse the OP further. The upper and lower dantien aren't usually referred to in JMAs - in JMAs, the tanden is usually in reference to the middle dantien, aka hara.

Top
#431027 - 12/02/10 06:19 PM Re: WARNING! Very stupid beginner question! [Re: Prizewriter]
Th3_Pun1sH3R Offline
Newbie

Registered: 08/20/08
Posts: 8
Loc: Earth
Originally Posted By: Prizewriter
I've seen some punching and kicking in Aikido demonstrations but punching and kicking weren't part of Aikido (as I was taught it). Any punching and kicking that was taught was purely from the point of view of giving uke a few more arrows in his quiver. Kicking and punching were used in my old classes public demonstrations where uke would punch/kick tori. Tori never punched or kicked, they only reacted to those attacks from the uke.
Since this is related to my initial comment, I should perhaps clarify the point regarding kicking and punching.

Consider this:
1. What if Aikido is simply a method of training the body to move in a specific way? Moving from the hara, keeping the weight underside (i.e. sinking the qi), relax, etc...
2. What if this specific way of moving allows one to generate and transmit power efficiently - by using the other person's force against themselves? (i.e. musubi, awase)
3. What if moving this specific way can be directly translated to your "everyday" movements?
4. And what if your "everyday" movements now become your "natural" movement.

Q. would you punch and kick "differently", or would punching and kicking simply be an extension of your body and the way you move - as part of your now "natural" movement?

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