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#423549 - 11/15/09 12:57 AM UFC 105 *Spoilers*
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Not a bad card, especially if you are British cool

Not going to do a blow by blow, as I presume everyone who wanted to watch did, or will catch reruns on TV/Net over the ensuing days, but Bisping and Dan Hardy both did amazingly well - I have no idea whay Hardy uses for a chin, but that boy can take a punch, and behind the punk image, is a seriously skilled striker, which he will need to be as he has earned himself a shot at St.Pierre. Can't see him being the man to beat GSP, but if your in the fight, you're in with a chance, and he does have heavy hands.

Bisping showed great resolve to came back from a bad flash knockdown in the 1st round, and showed some serious defensive skills before unleashing a G n P that just stopped Kang in his tracks. Impressive win.

Couture vs Vera will have the web arguing for weeks. Should control and inside striking have beaten the less frequent, but more eyecatching power striking of Vera?

For me, it was a fair decision. No doubt that Vera's power troubled Couture, but knowing this, Couture then imposed his gameplan, pinning Vera to the cage in the clinch, roughing him up with his shoulders and head, and slipping in a few elbows/knees along the way.
Was it exciting? not overly, apart from the feeling that one slip by Randy and he would be KO'd, but in the 3rd round, he got more busy in the clinch, and was having an effect on Vera.
Despite being mounted briefly, the consistent domination in the fight came from Couture, and I think he deserved the decision.

On the subject, who the f*ck does Joe Rogan think he is!!!??? in the interview with Vera he decided to rant about the state of judging in the UFC, and how 'you won that fight, and this wont affect your UFC career'. You are a commentator mate, maybe leave decisions like that to people who matter eh? besides, Randy moved closer to Machida, and 'Mr Muay Thai' Vera who could do exactly jack in the clinch, gets pushed out of the queue, so it does alter his career.

Another thing that pi$$ed me off is the 'fans' stealing the hats off the heads of the fighters as they walk to the cage. Never seen it before, but happened to Swick and Couture. Bang out of order, and embarassing for Britain. Still, if you will host these things in Manchester shocked
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#423551 - 11/15/09 11:13 AM Re: UFC 105 *Spoilers* [Re: Cord]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Cord, totally agreed with your summary here on all points. Dan Hardy looked fantastic, with very crisp and powerful striking. Bisping also really impressed me with his ground game, showing excellent hip movement from underneath. Doubly impressive considering Kang's overall ground superiority.

Couture/Vera was very hard to judge. Round 3 seems to be the big question, and I can see it going either way. Randy was clearly controlling the where and how of the fight, with a late rally by Vera. What outscores what in that case? Tough to call, but I wouldn't call it a robbery. Vera made a giant mistake by not moving to finish via GnP in the second - he had Randy's number then.

And I can't beleive you didn't mention Ross Pearson! He looked absolutely fantastic. His boxing was strong and acurate. The Brits should be rightfully proud of their MMA boys now!
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#423554 - 11/15/09 01:26 PM Re: UFC 105 *Spoilers* [Re: MattJ]
Dereck Offline
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Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Ross Pearson impressed me the most however I think his opponent wasn't near the calibre they were building him up during the fight.

Hardy owned Swick; not what I was expecting. I think he will be one of the better fighters for GSP.

Bisping didn't impress me against Kang. Kang, though a black belt, has a less then adequate ground game and panics all of the time when put in this position. He may have a heavy hand but that is it.

I love Randy and I agree with the judges however Vera was the better of the two in this fight. Randy didn't win this fight, Vera lost the fight. He should have created more space and kept the distance to fight his fight but he didn't and that gave Randy the opportunity to boringly press him against the fence. Randy however looks in impressive condition and I wouldn't doubt he will fight either Tito or Forrest; who ever wins next week.

On Spike we never got to hear Rogan talk to Vera. We also did not get to see anybody walk down to the ring with music so did not see the hat stealing. Those are unfortunate instances.
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#423561 - 11/16/09 01:32 PM Re: UFC 105 *Spoilers* [Re: Dereck]
JMWcorwin Offline
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Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
First off, Is it just me or is Swick hitting the pipe? Damn he's gotten skinny.

Now, as for the main event, I think I posted the same kind of response to a thread on another fight with questionable outcome. Who were we arguing about last week where the champ took the win and people thought is should've gone the other way? (senior moment)

Facts are this. HEre are the judging criteria:

-Clean Strikes
-Effective Grappling
-Octagon Control
-Effective Aggressiveness

Very only had one out of the four categories and only for brief moments in a couple rounds. You can't just give the fight over to him becuase he was a tad more exciting in those few instances. Totally correct outcome as outlined by the judging criteria and 10 piont must system. We will keep having these questionable decisions unless they decide to dump this and just judge the fight solely on the overall feel of the fight at the end, instead of a round by round objective system. Deal with it.
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#423563 - 11/16/09 01:57 PM Re: UFC 105 *Spoilers* [Re: JMWcorwin]
Dereck Offline
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Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Corwin, was that directed at me or the thread? I agreed with the decision.
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"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#423564 - 11/16/09 02:10 PM Re: UFC 105 *Spoilers* [Re: Dereck]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
Sorry, just the thread in general. You were just last in line. grin
And I don't think anyone in the thread outwardly disagreed entirely with the decision. But, I was just making the comment in general to those who would. (hence my mention of the argument last week over who shouldv'e won the fight I can't remember)


Edited by JMWcorwin (11/16/09 02:16 PM)
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There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

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#423567 - 11/16/09 03:27 PM Re: UFC 105 *Spoilers* [Re: JMWcorwin]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Another way to look at it, is if Randy had spent the same amount of time in half, or full mount, then there would be no doubt in anyone's minds about the outcome of the fight.

As it is, he essentialy, did this, just in a verticle position.

When you think of Vera's clinch experience and the age gap, this is quite a feat, and I have no idea why Rogan and Vera spat a collective dummy over it crazy
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#423570 - 11/16/09 08:19 PM Re: UFC 105 *Spoilers* [Re: Cord]
JMWcorwin Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/13/07
Posts: 731
Loc: SoCal, USA
I think it's just a matter of when people see that someone COULD have defeated Randy in grand fashion, (like after the kick in the second) they have the tendency to view that as a win. It's a matter of excitement. Most fans would give more weight to the exciting head kick or knee than the masterfull, yet boring, act of fighter B effectively taking that factor out of the fight by smothering him.

We're emotional creatures. And seeing Randy Couture buckle like that is exciting and emotional. Seeing Randy smother and dirty box the rest of the match out against the cage just doesn't have the same emotional effect on the viewer. So we FEEL like Vera won. But, if you cut out the emotion and be objective, it was the right call. And absolutely a great feat in itself given Vera's clinche game.

So, yeah, if Randy had given us some more emotion by actually slamming Brandon a few times and keeping him on the mat instead of against the cage... I don't think even Joe would've seen anything wrong with the judging.

The bottom line is that the fans want to see someone win in grand fashion, not watch someone just prevent him from doing so by executing a well thought out and executed, yet boring, game plan.

You're right of course. Had this been on the ground it wouldn't have been controversial at all.


and in reply to earlier posts... I do get more impressed by Ross Pearson every time I see him fight. I liked him on the show and he put up a good fight. Would be nice to see him in against a bigger name.
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There are no PERFECT techniques, only perfect execution for the situation at hand. ~Corwin

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#423575 - 11/17/09 08:28 AM Re: UFC 105 *Spoilers* [Re: JMWcorwin]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Noting MMA's rise in the UK:

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/11/16/1160609/quote-of-the-day-the-british

""If there was an overriding theme for UFC 105 Saturday night, it was the coming-out party for British mixed martial arts.

In a country that hasn't embraced major American sports like football, basketball or baseball, MMA, in two and a half years has become one of the country's most popular sports, with a fan base that matched crowds in the UFC's hometown of Las Vegas in their appreciation for the technical points of the sport, and a roster of fighters that continually improves.

The country's two most popular MMA fighters, Michael Bisping (pictured) from Manchester and Dan Hardy from Liverpool, had the most impressive performances of their respective careers at the Manchester Evening News Arena, as British fighters had wins in six of eight matches against opponents from other countries.

...

With the exception of football, the national sport, boxing, and native sports like rugby and cricket, MMA is as visible any sport as in the country. And in comparison, the night before UFC 105, in Manchester, Ricky Hatton promoted a boxing show headlined by his brother, which was nationally televised and heavily promoted, and drew less than 1,000 fans, while the UFC event drew a sell-out of 16,693 fans. White said he believed that set an all-time record for the Manchester Evening News Arena."
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#423577 - 11/17/09 09:10 AM Re: UFC 105 *Spoilers* [Re: MattJ]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
A few grumbles:

1. Hardy is from Nottingham, not Liverpool.
2. NFL is MASSIVE in the UK, and has been since 1984
3. MMA is not an American sport
4. We have had MMA events in the UK as far back as 1993, and high profile MMAers when Hardy was still in school (Freeman, Wier)
5. That boxing event was promoted by Ricky Hatton, but he wasn't fighting.
6. WWE had a crowd of 19,300 in 1998, and Ricky Hatton (fighting) has had similar crowds at the venue, leaving Dana's statement a few thousand off the mark.
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