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#423331 - 11/02/09 03:25 PM Re: Pure styles vs MMA [Re: Chen Zen]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Originally Posted By: Chen Zen
True, its all got its limits. We need Kumite, to the Death, like Bloodsport. grin


I think the problem comes in when people try to create a fighting format to mimick a street fight or SD situation. The truth is the goal of any method of sparring is to develop skills to assist one in a real fight, not to simulate a real fight.
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#423337 - 11/02/09 07:08 PM Re: Pure styles vs MMA [Re: medulanet]
IExcalibui2 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/06
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Loc: New York City
another problem is that people have a higher risk of getting some serious injuries
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#423351 - 11/03/09 10:24 AM Re: Pure styles vs MMA [Re: medulanet]
Chen Zen Offline
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Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
The question then becomes, If you arent simulating a sd situation, then will your training and preperation be adequate?

I think it should be as realistic as possible, without having to go to work with a busted rib and a black eye the next day. IMHO, MMA has come the closest to capturing that. It's far from perfect, and there are still tons of limits. I think that the answer to the problem may eventually come in the form of computer programming or virtual reality. Even still, nothing replaces the real thing.
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#423353 - 11/03/09 11:40 AM Re: Pure styles vs MMA [Re: Chen Zen]
medulanet Offline
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Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Originally Posted By: Chen Zen
The question then becomes, If you arent simulating a sd situation, then will your training and preperation be adequate?


Exactly. And the answer is you will NEVER know until you actually have to use your art for real.
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#423372 - 11/03/09 04:36 PM Re: Pure styles vs MMA [Re: medulanet]
IExcalibui2 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
MMA sparring should be where you're at, imo when you do train a fighting situation

yea you never know, but if your sparring has less rules then it is closer to a SD situation. Since you've trained against a more unpredictable opponent then you are better equipped to deal with an unpredictable opponent in the street than if your sparring sessions contained more rules, making it more restricting.
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#423406 - 11/05/09 02:55 PM Re: Pure styles vs MMA [Re: IExcalibui2]
everyone Offline
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Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
The problem with sparring to "MMA rules" is that pure SD techniques are omitted. Each player is trying to "win" the sparring match. If instead you look for openings and initiate non-sporting techniques (but don't finish them for safety sake), IMO it is better SD training. The training should still be continuous, just continue to spar assuming the technique did not work. By initiating attacks that are not carried out to completion in sparring, a player may "lose" the match but will gain insight on "openings" and recovering from failed actions. Of course the more fully completed nonsport techniques should be practiced in a more controlled fashion with drills.

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#423414 - 11/05/09 11:23 PM Re: Pure styles vs MMA [Re: everyone]
IExcalibui2 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
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just because UFC's MMA rules say one thing doesnt mean that YOUR MMA rules have to be the same. I'm saying MMA sparring as in sparring with all kinds of techniques allowed, whether its stand up or grappling or ground fighting. All ranges should be in effect so that the players have to use everything they possibly can to "win" (whatever that means).

sure use the pure SD techniques, on the ground/standin whatever u want. thats what I mean when I say MMA. Theres MMA as a sport, and then theres MMA as a way to train.
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#423424 - 11/06/09 09:40 AM Re: Pure styles vs MMA [Re: IExcalibui2]
Chen Zen Offline
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Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Exactly. UFC isnt the end all be all of SD. MMA is much more than what gets shown on PPV and Spike TV. Incorporating all ranges of attack, and a variety of attacks is whats going to be important to your training. And always, resistance. Many of the things that are generally allowed in MMA are frowned upon in "Pure" styles. Like choking and opponent. Easily acceptable in a MMA gym but likely to get you thrown out of a Karate Dojo.
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#423427 - 11/06/09 12:52 PM Re: Pure styles vs MMA [Re: Chen Zen]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Originally Posted By: Chen Zen
Exactly. UFC isnt the end all be all of SD. MMA is much more than what gets shown on PPV and Spike TV. Incorporating all ranges of attack, and a variety of attacks is whats going to be important to your training. And always, resistance. Many of the things that are generally allowed in MMA are frowned upon in "Pure" styles. Like choking and opponent. Easily acceptable in a MMA gym but likely to get you thrown out of a Karate Dojo.


Unfortunately that is usually the case (but not always). Another example would be groin strikes. There are many karate schools and tournaments that allow strikes to the groin during kumite, but repeated low blows in an MMA gym would probably get one expelled as well.
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#423428 - 11/06/09 12:57 PM Re: Pure styles vs MMA [Re: everyone]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Originally Posted By: everyone
The problem with sparring to "MMA rules" is that pure SD techniques are omitted. Each player is trying to "win" the sparring match. If instead you look for openings and initiate non-sporting techniques (but don't finish them for safety sake), IMO it is better SD training. The training should still be continuous, just continue to spar assuming the technique did not work. By initiating attacks that are not carried out to completion in sparring, a player may "lose" the match but will gain insight on "openings" and recovering from failed actions. Of course the more fully completed nonsport techniques should be practiced in a more controlled fashion with drills.


What exactly do you consider a "non-sporting technique?"
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