FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 16 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
SenseiGregT, sagat, JFawkes, pluckysaga39, sgtdemeo
22911 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Dobbersky 5
AndyLA 5
Ed_Morris 4
futsaowingchun 3
ergees 3
September
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
New Topics
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
Today at 03:51 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
08/19/14 05:22 AM
Chi Sao demonstration
by futsaowingchun
08/14/14 10:57 PM
Decent Fight channel
by FrankyFruits
08/07/14 09:19 PM
2014 European Championships Cadets Athens: Videos
by ergees
08/07/14 10:00 AM
Life goes on....
by Dobbersky
08/07/14 05:59 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by Dobbersky
07/10/14 07:14 AM
Recent Posts
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
Today at 03:51 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Zombie Zero
08/29/14 10:50 PM
mindfullness meditation
by log1call
08/28/14 02:39 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Ed_Morris
08/26/14 09:58 PM
The Karate punch
by Ed_Morris
08/26/14 09:27 PM
Chum Kiu 2nd section applications
by futsaowingchun
08/20/14 09:54 PM
2013 World Championship Rio: The Gallery (HD)
by ergees
08/19/14 05:22 AM
attacked from behind
by AndyLA
08/16/14 04:59 PM
ITF TaeKwonDo or Shotokan Karate????
by VDJ
08/15/14 05:46 PM
Forum Stats
22911 Members
36 Forums
35573 Topics
432484 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 13 of 16 < 1 2 ... 11 12 13 14 15 16 >
Topic Options
#422704 - 10/03/09 11:44 AM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: Cord]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Originally Posted By: Cord
Originally Posted By: medulanet
[That's just it, it is an instinctual reaction which they don't develop into a trained response but just shoot from the hip. I already know how to run, but if I train to run the I will be better at it. In addition, I may train to run, but if I don't know how certain situations my naturally change my running technique, and I don't learn how to use this altered technique in a productive way, I may get by on my athletic skill alone, but I would be much better if I had training on how to utilized these alterations more effectively.


Would you train to run by lying on your back and waving your legs in the air?


WHAT?
_________________________
Dulaney Dojo

Top
#422705 - 10/03/09 11:57 AM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: MattJ]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Originally Posted By: MattJ
Sure it does, but so does skill. I think between 230lb Nogueira and 185lb Silva, that Silva could take that. I would give 170lb GSP good odds against 240lb Frank Mir. Skill vs strength isn't a simple either/or thing.


In an open class MMA contest, why would Silva cut to 185? He doesn't even do that to fight 205?

Quote:
Come on, bro. Now you're being ridiculous. No one can be effective in MMA without BJJ - no one. You can strike with boxing or Muay Thai or karate or sanshuo. You can wrestle or do sambo or judo or shoot-wrestling. But you can't do without BJJ. BJJ *is* the foundation of MMA, the common thread that all MMA fighters have. No one has been successful without it. BJJ is a separate case, and you know it.


Just as JKogas, its all MMA. BJJ isn't the only art with submission defense. And to fight wrestling and that is the way to go on the ground for some. And apparently BJJ didn't help Maia much against Marquart. And Maia is one of the best BJJ guys to ever enter the cage. Why is it that its okay when Machida doesn't train karate, he trains MMA statement is made, however, a similar statement about BJJ is seen as "ridiculous."

Quote:
See.......you're being dishonest here, too. Escaping from the bottom is exactly THE MOST DIFFICULT THING TO DO IN A FIGHT. Especially when the guy is bigger than you, and moreso when the guy is also more skilled than you. The fact that Kimbo, with comparitively little ground experience, was almost able to completely turn himself over against a 35lb heavier, much better groundfighter speaks volumes for his athletic ability.


No, maybe against an olympic or NCAA all american level wrestler. But against most guys it is not that hard, if you have wrestling experience. However, if you train to pull guard and fight from your back rather than skills that are IMO more useful in a fight then yes, it will be quite difficult.

Quote:
I consider most pro-athletes to be elite. I am not sure who you are comparing them to. Roy was doing well against Andre Arlovski on the ground, and only a BS stand-up allowed Arlovski to win. Nelson isn't Lesnar.....but who is? And Rodgers? Yeah, I think Kimbo vs Rodgers is a valid comparison. Both are hard punchers with little training and no ground skill. I don't see where Rodgers could automatically kick Kimbo's a$$.


Do you know how many "pro" fighters there are? The UFC is relatively young and most individuals with "elite" athletic talent go for the higher paying sports. There are some elite athletes in the UFC, but the NFL, NBA, and international soccer scene holds far more proportionally. As for Rodgers he moves extremely well for a big man who, like Lesnar, cuts close to 20 lbs to make 265. Rodgers is years ahead of Kimbo as far as MMA and fighting goes. What exactly have you seen from Kimbo, other than his physical appearance, say elite athlete. You should check out some NFL pro bowl level training videos on youtube or coverage of the NFL combine and look at the numbers and performances of some of the top picks. Adrian Wilson of the AZ Cardinals has some insane stuff on the net. That is "elite" athletic talent. And he is about the same size and build as kimbo, but athletically, him and Kimbo are not even on the same planet.
_________________________
Dulaney Dojo

Top
#422709 - 10/03/09 01:27 PM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: medulanet]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Originally Posted By: medulanet
In an open class MMA contest, why would Silva cut to 185? He doesn't even do that to fight 205?


Maybe he wants to prove a point. How would I know? You're the one asking. I brought up examples of -200lb fighters that would probably do well against some non-cutting heavyweights. Please stop trying to shift your argument.

Quote:
Just as JKogas, its all MMA. BJJ isn't the only art with submission defense. And to fight wrestling and that is the way to go on the ground for some. And apparently BJJ didn't help Maia much against Marquart.


I bet you are going to feel really stupid when I remind you that Nate Marquardt is black belt in BJJ himself. So maybe BJJ did help in the ring, LOL. Your argument will make sense when you can find an elite MMA fighter that has *zero* BJJ training. I'll hold my breath while you search.

Quote:
And Maia is one of the best BJJ guys to ever enter the cage. Why is it that its okay when Machida doesn't train karate, he trains MMA statement is made, however, a similar statement about BJJ is seen as "ridiculous."


Because it *IS* ridiculous - see above.

Quote:
No, maybe against an olympic or NCAA all american level wrestler. But against most guys it is not that hard, if you have wrestling experience. However, if you train to pull guard and fight from your back rather than skills that are IMO more useful in a fight then yes, it will be quite difficult.


I'm not denying that wrestling is a valuable skill. But your "wrestling experience" qualifier is as specious as me saying it's no problem for a BJJ guy, either. Kimbo clearly has little of either - my point in the first place. If he's not doing it with skill, it must be.......oh hell. I'll let you figure it out.

Quote:
Do you know how many "pro" fighters there are? The UFC is relatively young and most individuals with "elite" athletic talent go for the higher paying sports. There are some elite athletes in the UFC, but the NFL, NBA, and international soccer scene holds far more proportionally.


Not sure what your point is - are you saying that football and basketball guys can come into MMA and start kicking a$$? That is clearly not the case. Johnny Morton, anyone?

Quote:
As for Rodgers he moves extremely well for a big man who, like Lesnar, cuts close to 20 lbs to make 265. Rodgers is years ahead of Kimbo as far as MMA and fighting goes. What exactly have you seen from Kimbo, other than his physical appearance, say elite athlete.


How many times do I have to answer this? Please read my previous answers. I agree that Rodgers has done well. I don't know that he is light-years ahead of Kimbo, though. I will concede, that by your definition, Kimbo is not "elite".

Quote:
You should check out some NFL pro bowl level training videos on youtube or coverage of the NFL combine and look at the numbers and performances of some of the top picks. Adrian Wilson of the AZ Cardinals has some insane stuff on the net. That is "elite" athletic talent. And he is about the same size and build as kimbo, but athletically, him and Kimbo are not even on the same planet.


That's awesome. What does this have to do with fighting?
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#422711 - 10/03/09 02:32 PM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: medulanet]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: medulanet
Originally Posted By: Cord
Originally Posted By: medulanet
[That's just it, it is an instinctual reaction which they don't develop into a trained response but just shoot from the hip. I already know how to run, but if I train to run the I will be better at it. In addition, I may train to run, but if I don't know how certain situations my naturally change my running technique, and I don't learn how to use this altered technique in a productive way, I may get by on my athletic skill alone, but I would be much better if I had training on how to utilized these alterations more effectively.


Would you train to run by lying on your back and waving your legs in the air?


WHAT?


You used running training in analogy to MA training. Taking that point, I merely carried it on by equating kata to moving your legs about in the air - after all, that would be the equivalent.

Interestingly enough, it has been found that running on a treadmill does not help in preparation for any road running activity, outside of the cardiovascular aspects. Its down to the biomechanics being different, even though to the eye, in both practices you are 'running'.

Perfect a side kick in kata, and there is no way of knowing if :
a) you will be able to time it to land against a real person
b) If it lands, how your own body will respond to meeting the force of the struck person
C) what reaction your kick will achieve, and from there what follow up measures to take
d)what to do if your kick misses.
e) how to recieve and deal with counters to you side kick

I know that you are going to say 'yes, but that is where all the other training comes in'

To which I would simply ask, if points a) to e) are learned elsewhere, then you cannot say that Kata is at the heart of fighting.

If you want to see it as a way of transmitting technique, fair enough, but why make such a big deal of it in gradings? Thats sort of like denying Tiger woods a masters jacket because he didnt look good on the warm up driving range ;-)
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#422713 - 10/03/09 02:46 PM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: MattJ]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Originally Posted By: MattJ
Maybe he wants to prove a point. How would I know? You're the one asking. I brought up examples of -200lb fighters that would probably do well against some non-cutting heavyweights. Please stop trying to shift your argument.


Who's shifting the arguement? You attempted to claim that Silva would fight a heavy weight at 185.

Quote:
I bet you are going to feel really stupid when I remind you that Nate Marquardt is black belt in BJJ himself. So maybe BJJ did help in the ring, LOL. Your argument will make sense when you can find an elite MMA fighter that has *zero* BJJ training. I'll hold my breath while you search.


What do you consider BJJ training? A fighter must train against BJJ and learn to defeat it. Couture does this, but applies his wrestling to MMA and no more trains BJJ than someone who trains against a karate man to beat Machida trains in karate.

And I guess that over hand Marquart used to knock Maia out with in 30 seconds is a BJJ technique.

Quote:
Quote:
And Maia is one of the best BJJ guys to ever enter the cage. Why is it that its okay when Machida doesn't train karate, he trains MMA statement is made, however, a similar statement about BJJ is seen as "ridiculous."


Because it *IS* ridiculous - see above.


So its ridiculous to say that a person is not training BJJ, he's training MMA. Right? I'll remember that whenever someone tells me that Machida does not train karate to fight, he trains MMA.

Quote:
I'm not denying that wrestling is a valuable skill. But your "wrestling experience" qualifier is as specious as me saying it's no problem for a BJJ guy, either. Kimbo clearly has little of either - my point in the first place. If he's not doing it with skill, it must be.......oh hell. I'll let you figure it out.


And what strength did Kimbo show? Almost bridging out using his feel to walk up the cage. Kimbo is no weakling. However, we were discussing elite athletes. Of which, Kimbo is not.

Quote:
Not sure what your point is - are you saying that football and basketball guys can come into MMA and start kicking a$$? That is clearly not the case. Johnny Morton, anyone?


Wow, an over the hill wide reciever. I don't think Morton would be in that class either. If he had still been an elite athlete then he would still be in the...I don't know...why don't YOU figure it out.

Quote:
Quote:
You should check out some NFL pro bowl level training videos on youtube or coverage of the NFL combine and look at the numbers and performances of some of the top picks. Adrian Wilson of the AZ Cardinals has some insane stuff on the net. That is "elite" athletic talent. And he is about the same size and build as kimbo, but athletically, him and Kimbo are not even on the same planet.


That's awesome. What does this have to do with fighting?


Wait, weren't we talking about elite athleticism? That's and example. I wish I had more examples in MMA, but there are many who are on that level.
_________________________
Dulaney Dojo

Top
#422715 - 10/03/09 02:56 PM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: Cord]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Originally Posted By: Cord
You used running training in analogy to MA training. Taking that point, I merely carried it on by equating kata to moving your legs about in the air - after all, that would be the equivalent.


No, its not.


Quote:
Perfect a side kick in kata, and there is no way of knowing if :
a) you will be able to time it to land against a real person
b) If it lands, how your own body will respond to meeting the force of the struck person
C) what reaction your kick will achieve, and from there what follow up measures to take
d)what to do if your kick misses.
e) how to recieve and deal with counters to you side kick

I know that you are going to say 'yes, but that is where all the other training comes in'

To which I would simply ask, if points a) to e) are learned elsewhere, then you cannot say that Kata is at the heart of fighting.


That's just it. For you one technique seems to be one technique. That's why you mainly have a certain "type" of person who trains and competes in MMA. However, in kata one technique can be many different things. Therefore it is more "free" that your MMA. What's a perfect jab? Does that mean one should not learn to throw a jab?

Quote:
If you want to see it as a way of transmitting technique, fair enough, but why make such a big deal of it in gradings? Thats sort of like denying Tiger woods a masters jacket because he didnt look good on the warm up driving range ;-)


Not really. Who is talking about aesthetics? Is that the type of karate that you studied? Hmmm.
_________________________
Dulaney Dojo

Top
#422719 - 10/03/09 05:15 PM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: medulanet]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: medulanet
That's just it. For you one technique seems to be one technique. That's why you mainly have a certain "type" of person who trains and competes in MMA.


One last time, for the cheap seats: I. DO. NOT. TRAIN. M. M. A. !!!!!

It shows exactly how much you are listening to in this thread, and how you are more intent on forming your next post.

Quote:
However, in kata one technique can be many different things. Therefore it is more "free" that your MMA. What's a perfect jab? Does that mean one should not learn to throw a jab?


What has that got to do with anything? You can have a swiss army jab for all I care - it could be good for everything from a knockout to opening a can of beans - but until you use it on a person, or that can of beans, its just flapping at ghosts.

Quote:
Not really. Who is talking about aesthetics? Is that the type of karate that you studied? Hmmm.


How can you judge a kata performance on anything other than aesthetics? You cant judge it on power (the techniques do not connect with anything, and we all know the karate trick of spending extra cash on a Gi that will give that 'snap' noise to impress on grading day). You cant judge it on accuracy in relation to target (there is none), and you cant judge it on depth of understanding of the multi faceted ethos behind it - again, because you have no one to apply the technique to in any way shape of form.

As for the karate I studied. My first style was Shukokai, and the class was very 'kata-centric', with point sparring thrown in. I quit when young, but a friend I introduced to the club went on to get his shodan. As it happened, he won several national Kata competition, but never reached any level of recognition in kumite. Funny that eh?

The second style was not a good example anyway, but again was oriented to Kata. In sparring, at one point I was actively told to ease off as it was 'disrespectful' for a white belt (me) to be handing a brown belt his own a$$. Again, this guy looked awesome in kata.

I moved on and away, and found Savate (NOT MMA) , which is a striking art. Grading is optional, but how it works is that dependant on the grade being tested for, you have to display certain key techniques in a live sparring environment - the higher the grade, the more difficult the techniques you have to look to use, and execute.

If anyone stood in front of our instructor, and went through a demonstration of kicks and punches in thin air, it would not sway the grading one bit, no matter how good it looked.

Taking kata to its extreme conclusion, would you say that the XMAists, who could perform any kata you chose to physical perfection, would be displaying fighting skill by doing so, or would it 'not count'
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#422720 - 10/03/09 05:49 PM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: medulanet]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Originally Posted By: medulanet
Who's shifting the arguement? You attempted to claim that Silva would fight a heavy weight at 185.


I made no such claim. I clearly meant that a 185lb Silva would be able to hang with some heavyweights because of his skill. Same thing with GSP at 170. You were the one that brought up them bulking up, not me. Please read what I actually write. I realize full well that type of match isn't going to happen.

Quote:
What do you consider BJJ training? A fighter must train against BJJ and learn to defeat it.


Yes, exactly. You have to train it at least to be able to defeat it. That's what I've been saying all along.

Quote:
Couture does this, but applies his wrestling to MMA and no more trains BJJ than someone who trains against a karate man to beat Machida trains in karate.

And I guess that over hand Marquart used to knock Maia out with in 30 seconds is a BJJ technique.


Shifting your argument again. I didn't mention specific techniques. Only that every MMA fighter must know some BJJ. I can't help that you keep using bad examples.

Quote:
So its ridiculous to say that a person is not training BJJ, he's training MMA. Right? I'll remember that whenever someone tells me that Machida does not train karate to fight, he trains MMA.


Again, BJJ is the foundation of MMA as we know it, as much as this must pain you. I have never said that Machida doesn't train karate, anyway, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing that up. Has anyone here said that Machida doesn't train karate? I have questioned the degree of his karate's involvement, but accept that it DOES CLEARLY play a part in his skill.

Quote:
And what strength did Kimbo show? Almost bridging out using his feel to walk up the cage. Kimbo is no weakling. However, we were discussing elite athletes. Of which, Kimbo is not.


Didn't I concede that before? You enjoy repeating yourself, I guess. *shrug*

Quote:
Wow, an over the hill wide reciever. I don't think Morton would be in that class either. If he had still been an elite athlete then he would still be in the...I don't know...why don't YOU figure it out.


Oh, OK. So now NFL athletes aren't elite anymore. Got it. It seems crazy, I know, but I think that MMA is so different from other sports, that maybe.....just maybe......their athleticism will only take them so far without the specific skills needed for MMA. We'll see better after TUF 10, yes?

Quote:
Wait, weren't we talking about elite athleticism? That's and example. I wish I had more examples in MMA, but there are many who are on that level.


I keep talking about MMA athletes, and other people bring up NFL, and basketball, etc, like that has something to do with fighting. It's like people want to shift their argument because they can't make a good case for the point being discussed. But what do I know.

Quote:
However, in kata one technique can be many different things. Therefore it is more "free" that your MMA.


In *application*, a technique can only be one thing at a time, meaning that kata is no more free than sparring. I assume your real name is not Charles Xavier, right? The rest of us have to fight with our hands and feet. smile
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
#422722 - 10/03/09 08:21 PM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: MattJ]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Originally Posted By: MattJ
I made no such claim. I clearly meant that a 185lb Silva would be able to hang with some heavyweights because of his skill. Same thing with GSP at 170. You were the one that brought up them bulking up, not me. Please read what I actually write. I realize full well that type of match isn't going to happen.


So we agree that its not likely Silva or St. Pierre would fight a heavy weight at under 200lbs.

Quote:
Yes, exactly. You have to train it at least to be able to defeat it. That's what I've been saying all along.


Okay, fair enough.

Quote:
Shifting your argument again. I didn't mention specific techniques. Only that every MMA fighter must know some BJJ. I can't help that you keep using bad examples.


Soon every UFC light heavyweight will need to know traditional karate if they hope to hold the title in the next couple of years.

Quote:
Again, BJJ is the foundation of MMA as we know it, as much as this must pain you. I have never said that Machida doesn't train karate, anyway, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing that up. Has anyone here said that Machida doesn't train karate? I have questioned the degree of his karate's involvement, but accept that it DOES CLEARLY play a part in his skill.


I wouldn't go that far. In fact, MMA has evolved past BJJ.

And F.Y.I. it was JKogas who made the statement on this thread that Machida trains "MMA" and not karate. And others backed up his claim. Just read earlier in the thread. However, he has not chimed and made that claim regarding any other art in relation to MMA. I wonder why.


Quote:
Oh, OK. So now NFL athletes aren't elite anymore. Got it. It seems crazy, I know, but I think that MMA is so different from other sports, that maybe.....just maybe......their athleticism will only take them so far without the specific skills needed for MMA. We'll see better after TUF 10, yes?


No, many NFL athletes are elite. Retired, over the hill, can't cut it anymore ones aren't. News flash, athletic talent comes and goes, it doesn't stay with us forever. NOT being in the NFL is a huge sign of declining athletic ability. I have yet to see anyone quit the league to compete in MMA. But I have seen guys who can no longer cut it in the NFL go that route. Wait, isn't that what Lesnar did?

Quote:
I keep talking about MMA athletes, and other people bring up NFL, and basketball, etc, like that has something to do with fighting. It's like people want to shift their argument because they can't make a good case for the point being discussed. But what do I know.


I am referring to a base level of athleticism, which can be measure independent of one's participation in MMA. Now the question is can that individual use it in MMA.

Quote:
In *application*, a technique can only be one thing at a time, meaning that kata is no more free than sparring. I assume your real name is not Charles Xavier, right? The rest of us have to fight with our hands and feet. smile


That's if your only using one technique/hand at a time. I can overhook your arm with one arm and hit you with the other. That is one technique used to do two things.
_________________________
Dulaney Dojo

Top
#422724 - 10/03/09 09:12 PM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: medulanet]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Originally Posted By: medulanet
So we agree that its not likely Silva or St. Pierre would fight a heavy weight at under 200lbs.


*headdesk*

Quote:
Soon every UFC light heavyweight will need to know traditional karate if they hope to hold the title in the next couple of years.


That's possible. Vitor seems to think he needs it!

Quote:
I wouldn't go that far. In fact, MMA has evolved past BJJ.


*sound of buzzer*

Man, Marcel. We could have some less divisive debates if you would stop with all the semantics. MMA has NOT evolved past BJJ. BJJ is the foundation - a big difference. MMA has evolved past all singular arts......about 10 years ago. No one is trying to say that BJJ RULZ, because it clearly doesn't by itself. Matt Hughes put the nail in that coffin years ago. But no one will get far without some training in it. Even you can't deny that fact, whether you think of me as a fanboy or not. No other art is as pervasive.

Quote:
No, many NFL athletes are elite. Retired, over the hill, can't cut it anymore ones aren't. News flash, athletic talent comes and goes, it doesn't stay with us forever. NOT being in the NFL is a huge sign of declining athletic ability. I have yet to see anyone quit the league to compete in MMA. But I have seen guys who can no longer cut it in the NFL go that route. Wait, isn't that what Lesnar did?


And how many NFL guys have gone into pro-wrestling? I guess that proves that pro-wrestling is more "elite" skillwise than football, huh? Or maybe......It's a different skillset. But look how many NFL guys are starting to turn to MMA-style training for conditioning. I wonder what that means!

Quote:
I am referring to a base level of athleticism, which can be measure independent of one's participation in MMA. Now the question is can that individual use it in MMA.


And the answer is: not always, which makes that line of reasoning irrelevant, which is my point. Yeah, someone may have an awesome 40 yard dash, or a fantastic vertical leap. But in the immortal words of Chris Rock, "Can you kick MY a$$?!"

Quote:
That's if your only using one technique/hand at a time. I can overhook your arm with one arm and hit you with the other. That is one technique used to do two things.


Here we go with the goofy semantics again. An overhook and a punch are two different techniques, Marcel. Count them for yourself. But that's not even what you meant initially and you know it. You meant that a block could be a punch or a grab, etc ("freedom"). This type of intellectual dishonesty is really beneath you. I am trying to have an honest debate.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

Top
Page 13 of 16 < 1 2 ... 11 12 13 14 15 16 >


Moderator:  Cord, Fletch1, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Fight Videos
Night club fight footage and street fights captured with the world's first bouncer spy cam

How to Matrix!
Learn ten times faster with new training method. Learn entire arts for as little as $10 per disk.

Self Defense
Stun guns, pepper spray, Mace and self defense products. Alarms for personal and home use.

TASER MC26C
Stop An Urban Gorilla: Get 2 FREE TASER M26C Replacement Air Cartridges With Each New TASER M26C!

 

Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga