FightingArts Estore
Pressure Points
From a medical professional, straight facts on where and how to hit that can save your life.
Stretching
Limber or not, anyone can add height and speed to their kicks with this method.
Calligraphy
For yourself or as a gift, calligraphy is special, unique and lasting.
Karate Uniforms
Look your best. Max snap. low cost & superior crafted: “Peak Performance Gold” 16 oz uniforms.

MOTOBU
Classic book translation. Hard to find. Not in stores.
Who's Online
0 registered (), 21 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
mohdnabeel, sunny, swordy, jerrybarry24, SenseiGregT
22915 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Ed_Morris 4
AndyLA 3
Zombie Zero 2
Matakiant 2
futsaowingchun 2
September
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
New Topics
STX Kickboxing Seminar
by Marcus Charles
09/09/14 06:57 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
09/01/14 03:51 AM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Bartfast
08/05/14 04:18 PM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
10/30/13 07:41 AM
Where Are They Now?
by Dobbersky
05/30/13 08:08 AM
mindfullness meditation
by
01/06/09 11:27 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by
05/13/07 08:02 AM
Eugue Ryu
by
03/27/07 12:06 AM
Recent Posts
attacked from behind
by AndyLA
09/19/14 09:05 AM
An open letter to bunkai researchers...
by Matakiant
09/18/14 07:11 AM
The Karate punch
by Matakiant
09/18/14 06:07 AM
** Introduce Yourself! **
by Zombie Zero
09/16/14 04:43 PM
Eugue Ryu
by kolslaw
09/12/14 03:35 PM
Biu Tzu- 1st section applications
by futsaowingchun
09/05/14 10:56 PM
2014 World Championships Chelyabinsk: The Gallery
by ergees
09/01/14 03:51 AM
mindfullness meditation
by log1call
08/31/14 09:43 PM
Biu Tzu- Snake hand strike
by futsaowingchun
08/27/14 09:02 PM
Forum Stats
22915 Members
36 Forums
35575 Topics
432495 Posts

Max Online: 424 @ 09/24/13 10:38 PM
Page 7 of 16 < 1 2 ... 5 6 7 8 9 ... 15 16 >
Topic Options
#422458 - 09/22/09 04:39 AM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: medulanet]
Gibberer Offline
Member

Registered: 04/10/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Gifu City, Japan
I guess we'll just have to disagree on the role of katas in training then! To be fair, there's no question that katas are a very Japanese way of doing things that doesn't necessarily translate well to the western way of learning... they've got katas for everything...flower arranging, tea ceremony, caligraphy... there's probably even a kata for getting out of bed in the morning.

More on topic though, I think it's great that karate is making a bit of a comeback, not because karate is better, but because it's finding gaps in the generic Muay Thai, BJJ/wrestling game plan. That's the beauty of MMA, and what it should be about...lots of different styles on display. Hopefully it's a sign that things are getting shaken up a bit and people will start thinking outside the box again!

On a side note...Machida isn't my favourite fighter by a long shot yet...he's still got a lot to do...in order my favourites are....Sakuraba, Fedor, Wanderlei Silva and then maybe Machida... Sakuraba da main man and no ones's allowed to disagree!

Top
#422460 - 09/22/09 05:43 AM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: medulanet]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: medulanet
In fact, I would go on to say that there is only one training method that is vital to one's success. However, for me, that method is intrinsically tied to my kata training.


You are entered for a fighting tournament. You have 6 weeks preparation time. You have to choose between your defined 'vital' training method and Kata. You cant have both. Which do you choose.?

I will throw a new can of worms into the conversation. Having watched the card, Tyson Griffin was using classic Savate angles, kicks and combinations in his KO victory.

Anderson has also been using savate kick and foot checking techniques in his recent fights pre. griffin.

Seeing as how we are looking for glory for our own arts in MMA at the moment wink
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#422461 - 09/22/09 06:00 AM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: Cord]
Gibberer Offline
Member

Registered: 04/10/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Gifu City, Japan
Originally Posted By: Cord


You are entered for a fighting tournament. You have 6 weeks preparation time. You have to choose between your defined 'vital' training method and Kata. You cant have both. Which do you choose.?


That isn't the issue for me ( not that I'm likely to be entering a fight competition some time soon!). Take Machida for example...he's been doing Shotokan since he was very young. He doesn't need to spend 2 hours a day practicing and learning kata, he knows the kata. For him, I imagine, he will spend 15 to 20 mins doing his favourite kata and then dive into his specific training for a UFC fight (bearing in mind of course that the training would differ between the various rules of the various MMA organisations). If he finds kata a good way to prepare his body and mind for that, then what is the problem? That's the way we do kata in our dojo...they are drilled... Heian Shodan...done in 1 minute...Heian Nidan done in 1 minute and so on. You do them, don't spend hours analysing and correcting them. That's why I say bunkai is not primary. You drill them and then get on with your kumite practice.

Top
#422462 - 09/22/09 06:07 AM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: Cord]
Gibberer Offline
Member

Registered: 04/10/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Gifu City, Japan
Originally Posted By: Cord


I will throw a new can of worms into the conversation. Having watched the card, Tyson Griffin was using classic Savate angles, kicks and combinations in his KO victory.

Anderson has also been using savate kick and foot checking techniques in his recent fights pre. griffin.

Seeing as how we are looking for glory for our own arts in MMA at the moment wink


Sorry I don't know how to do multi quotes...hence the double post...I know nothing about Savate, it's a kick boxing style from France though I think? What's distinct about it compared to other kick boxing styles? That's what I'm talking about...that's what's so good about MMA, and also why I find K1 a bit dull...the shear range of techniques and styles that it's possible to bring to it. What's wrong with highlighting techniques from your own art?

Top
#422463 - 09/22/09 06:45 AM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: Gibberer]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Gibberer, the answer you ask for is in my post. What's unique about savate? it's very distinctive, namely because of its use of angles, body position in kicks, and it has a certain idiosyncracy to the development of combinations that comes from that. Griffin fought like a savateur on saturday night.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#422469 - 09/22/09 01:32 PM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: Cord]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Originally Posted By: Cord
You are entered for a fighting tournament. You have 6 weeks preparation time. You have to choose between your defined 'vital' training method and Kata. You cant have both. Which do you choose.?


Well, that "vital" method is some method of sparring. That is the only thing that is common among all successful fighters. However, for me, my kata is vital to my sparring. I get my fighting strategies and techniques from kata. So for me to do what you ask would be like you simply fighting without using your fighting technqiues and principles from Savate.
_________________________
Dulaney Dojo

Top
#422470 - 09/22/09 01:47 PM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: Cord]
medulanet Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 2142
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Originally Posted By: Cord
I will throw a new can of worms into the conversation. Having watched the card, Tyson Griffin was using classic Savate angles, kicks and combinations in his KO victory.

Anderson has also been using savate kick and foot checking techniques in his recent fights pre. griffin.

Seeing as how we are looking for glory for our own arts in MMA at the moment wink


Its funny, you make this statement as if just a karate guy saying Machida is using karate to great success is abnormal. We all KNOW that BJJ, wrestling, and boxing never sought to be identified as key arts to successful competition in the cage. And saying any other art can be used seems like blasphemy these days.
_________________________
Dulaney Dojo

Top
#422471 - 09/22/09 01:58 PM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: Cord]
Gibberer Offline
Member

Registered: 04/10/09
Posts: 76
Loc: Gifu City, Japan
I was actually interested in what you would have to say about Savate. Appologies for engaging in discussion.

Top
#422474 - 09/22/09 03:52 PM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: Gibberer]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Jeez Gib, you asked a quastion and I answered it, as best I could, sorry if I came across wrong, it was not my intent.

I will try and do better this time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMJed79-WoM

Please notice right from word go in this clip, the front push kick to the kneecap that is a big 'go to' technique in Savate competition, and was experimented with by Silva in his fight with Leites in April. Not a common strike in any for of kickboxing other than Savate. Also in that fight, Silva 'checked' several of Leites kicks with his foot before they got going, whilst not on this video, this is again a classic savate tactic amongst the very competent.

From around 2 mins into the above clip, you will find low kicks that rely on stepping 'across' your oponent to add power and create angles, you will also notice that such kicks are used in lieu of a lead left, or jab, and get the savateur in range for a seamless switch to a right cross. The lateral movement in to an inside leg kick, followed quickly by a right cross, is bread and butter savate, and is also exactly what Tyson Griffin used to get his KO, actually sweeping the kick under the raised knee 'muay thai' kick check, that has become the standard defense in the octagon.

I have no evidence that Griffin trained in Savate, but the angles and answers that his trainer came up with for that fight are savate in all but name.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

Top
#422475 - 09/22/09 04:08 PM Re: Vitor Belfort using karate in MMA [Re: medulanet]
Dereck Offline
Prolific

Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Originally Posted By: medulanet
However, for me, my kata is vital to my sparring. I get my fighting strategies and techniques from kata.


Question. Why is kata vital to your sparring? You say that you get your fighting techniques and stategies from your kata but cannot you admit that there are better methods to get this from? Better methods that would make your fighting techniques and strategies even better then they are now? That perhaps you may be stagnant in this area because you use kata?

I understand. You don't come from a fighting system and this is the way it has been explained to you and the way you have trained for years and years. You fall back on what has been inbred in you and what you know. This is the problem.

Fighting is not linear; katas are. Different people bring different challenges to the table. It is already hard enough to train for one person but just imagine how hard it is to train to fight different people all of the time as a career. This requires you to adapt how you train or even change up how you train to be able to compete and have a chance in winning. Something like that cannot translate into fighting imaginary opponents in a kata where nothing changes.

Those that don't adapt or change how they train tend to lose over and over until they are forgotten. Once great fighters and name brands are no longer around or have become stagnant because they couldn't change. That is similar to katas.

Just like these fighters within their own bubble may still stand out as high end fighters, so to must many that train katas for their techniques and strategies. But step outside those bubbles and those techniques and strategies may still work but in the long run you will find that they are dead ways of training and that there are better ways to do so.

But again, you are not a fighter so what you are doing works fine within your system. But I guarantee that if you did become a fighter you would scrap katas to training to fight with better methods. And if you held on to them it would be only because you have sentimental attachment or you have a hard time like many giving up old methods because "that is what we did back then"; you know, just like our Grandparents talk like.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

Top
Page 7 of 16 < 1 2 ... 5 6 7 8 9 ... 15 16 >


Moderator:  Cord, Fletch1, MattJ, Reiki 




Action Ads
1.5 Million Plus Page Views
Monthly
Only $89
Details

Stun Guns
Variety of stun gun devices for your protection

Buy Pepper Spray
Worry about your family when you’re not around? Visit us today to protect everything you value.

Koryu.com
Accurate information on the ancient martial traditions of the Japanese samurai

C2 Taser
Protect yourself and loved ones from CRIME with the latest C2 Taser citizen model. Very effective.

 

 



Unbreakable Unbrella

krav maga