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#422518 - 09/24/09 08:04 AM James Toney on MMA
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Honest POV from the well known heavyweight boxer:

http://sherdogblog.craveonline.com/blog/2009-09-24
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#422520 - 09/24/09 10:26 AM Re: James Toney on MMA [Re: MattJ]
bo-ken Offline
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Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 1228
Loc: beaver falls, PA, beaver
This is a good interview. Toney is right MMA is putting together the fights fans want to see every month boxing isn't. I am still a fan of both like most martial artists are.

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#422522 - 09/24/09 01:08 PM Re: James Toney on MMA [Re: bo-ken]
Dereck Offline
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Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Toney has been punched one too many times to the head. Can't even form coherent sentences. Nice to see that he enjoys MMA. I've seen him fight and definitely recall his character on Fight Night 3. Not sure that a come back at 41 is in his stars but suspect he needs the money.

I have to admit that I used to love watching boxing; heck I used to love watching wrestling. However I find a lack of interest on my part to watch either now due to the excitement of MMA. The thing is I was a MMA fan before its huge popularity. While some of the earlier fights were very brutal, as soon as they adapted weight classes in UFC 12 that is where my excitement peaked.

UFC is "in your face". PPVs every 2-4 weeks. Live events broadcasted for free plus the Ultimate Fighter show. There are just so many elements to a MMA fight that the limits are on the fighters themselves for skills. How could one not enjoy this?
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"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#422523 - 09/24/09 02:39 PM Re: James Toney on MMA [Re: MattJ]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2572
Agree with James Toney... to an extent. MMA is better because it has, by and large, one major player: UFC, a single orginization that controls everything. It is good for the fans. And as Dereck said, there is a big MMA event fairly frequently. Not the case in boxing.

However, the down side of having one major player is that the field is uneven. The UFC sets the price and the terms for MMA'ists (by and large). The fighters have three choices as I see it i) Refuse the offer ii) Accept the offer iii) Try their luck somewhere else.

Now option iii doesn't seem to be much of an option, given the way other MMA orgs are going.

It is no secret that the UFC pays top level MMA'ists a small amount compared to the income UFC brings in and compared to what top boxers earn. Boxers are able to get a bigger slice of the pie mainly due to the fact that there ISN'T a single major force governing pro boxing. Deals have to be made, compromises have to be made and ultimately, money talks. This is to the benefit of the boxer, if not always the fan.

Case in point: Fedor Emelianenko was recently offered megabucks to enter UFC. Fed is one fighter that UFC do not have control over, so they are having to cough up the money for him. This is how it often works in boxing: if a promoter or TV company want to make a fight, they better bring their cheque book.

Many top boxing promoters said that while the current system is far from ideal in boxing, having a single player at the table would be even WORSE. This is because, as happens in the UFC, a single entity is dictating the terms. All well and good if they are being fair about it, but what do you do if they aren't?

MMA's model suits the fans, but not the fighters. Boxings model suits the fighters, but not the fans. Which is better? Depends on where you sit!



Edited by Prizewriter (09/24/09 02:42 PM)
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"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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#422524 - 09/24/09 03:22 PM Re: James Toney on MMA [Re: Prizewriter]
Dereck Offline
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Registered: 10/04/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Great White North
Some good points. You also have to take into consideration that boxing brings in more money as fight tickets are not cheap. And while UFC tickets are not either, they are still less expensive. Then you have to take into account how many people are on a MMA card; a lot more then boxing matches by far; so that means more has to be paid out. The UFC then offers bonuses for the winners and also may include "Fight of the Night", "Knock out of the Night" or "Submission of the Night".

We also cannot forget that others have tried to make a go at hosting a MMA venue; i.e. EliteXC. They had very decent payouts for the fighters, greater then the UFC. But as they found paying huge amounts to fighters was not the way to go when you don't have the revenue to do everything else.

A big part of MMA is promoting and marketing and that is BIG dollars. I think people forget about this. TV ads, going to events to promote fighters and up-and-coming events, free Fight Nights, Ultimate Fighter series, misc. TV shows, PPVs (your provider gets a chunk), and so much more. This adds up and you can bet accounts for a lot of the money brought in the door.

I see the UFC like I do the WWE; a lot of glitz and glamor to draw in the people; and that costs money, a lot of money. And just like the WWE, only the top end fighters are making the big money while the rest strive for that and will continue to do so because they want to be a part of it. Are willing to put their bodies through hell for very little money. Nothing is going to change here.

This is the nature of the business and those that want to be a part of it have to suck it up; I can accept that. I honestly don't think it is going to change much; MMA will never be like boxing. MMA will continue to follow the format of professional wrestling like the successful WWE because it works and has been for years. I think what people are forgetting is it isn't about the fighters as much as it is about us, the people watching it; that is who the UFC is selling to, don't ever forget it.

We all chose our career paths. Some of us are making big money, some of us are making decent money and some of us are making very little money. Fighters also choose their career paths and have to understand that this is life and that is the nature of the business. That something they love may not pay the best unless they are the best. It is their chose and there are a lot of people that want to do it and will do it for little to nothing.

Again, I am good with that.
_________________________
"IF I COME ... I'M BRINGING THE PAIN WITH ME"

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#422525 - 09/24/09 05:33 PM Re: James Toney on MMA [Re: MattJ]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Another thing to consider is that, aside from an occasional promotion in the UK, the UFC is an american animal, and whilst it has its share of international talent, there are plenty of corn-fed flag waving good ol' boys in the mix for Dwayne and Bobby Lee to cheer for.

North america is all about winners, doesnt matter if they are underdogs, or blatantly awesome, if a sport does not have a wealth of American talent, then it has a tough time with the public.
That is why the NFL has a world championships involving only american teams, and why soccer is a minority sport - americans are cr4p at it, so nobody cares about the US national team, so they get no investment, and so they stay cr4p.

The rise of the eastern block in boxing - especially heavyweight boxing, and the lack of a US heavyweight to match them, matched exactly the time scale of the rise of MMA as a spectator sport in the US.

Here in Britain, where we have had a 'golden decade' in our boxing history, it has never been more popular. Calzaghe, Hatton, Lewis, Haye, Khan, Froch. These are household names in Britain, and for the first time in years, boxing is back on our biggest TV channels - BBC and ITV, by public demand.

MMA on the other hand, is still a side show. The UFC is popular, but only available on subscription to ESPN. The UK organisations are shown late night on 'extreme sports channel' along with pro bull riding and windsurfing - niche programming.

All it would take is one really fit, talented, young and credible US heavyweight to emerge, and boxing would regain a great deal of its audience in the States. All the time that their hope lie in a 40+ Holyfield, or the long procession of fat feckless punchbags happy to lie down in the 5th for a cheque from the klitchko brothers, America will favour the UFC.
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#422527 - 09/24/09 06:20 PM Re: James Toney on MMA [Re: Cord]
grumbleweed Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/06
Posts: 446
hmmm, 'soccer' is our national sport and we still crow on about 66' and 'footballs coming home' blah blah bloomin' blah (and sulk when germany or argentina kick our arses) and since then sweet FA, in other words cr$p, in fact i wouldn't be suprised if the USA footy team could thrash us!


but apart from that you are correct.

carry on.
out!


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"Irony is mainly used by the British in in order to distinguish themselves from Americans, which worked very well until the Americans had more guns than them."

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#422529 - 09/24/09 10:06 PM Re: James Toney on MMA [Re: Cord]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:
North america is all about winners, doesnt matter if they are underdogs, or blatantly awesome, if a sport does not have a wealth of American talent, then it has a tough time with the public.


I....hmmmm. Not sure I agree with you there, although I can see why it looks that way recently. Jackie Stewart and Formula 1 racing were HUGE in the USA, and F1 remained popular, despite a dearth of American talent, until NASCAR ascended.

Tennis has been popular here, despite a strong international champion prescence. Hockey as well. And so on.

Quote:
That is why the NFL has a world championships involving only american teams, and why soccer is a minority sport - americans are cr4p at it, so nobody cares about the US national team, so they get no investment, and so they stay cr4p.


I am mystified somewhat by soccer/football's relative unpopularity here in the USA, although that is changing. World Cup gets major coverage over here in the past few years, and soccer, as a sport, continues to grow.

But remember, we rejected the metric system, too. We don't like being told what is good for us. grin

MMA is on a similar upswing, but I agree that a captivating heavyweight match-up would restore much of boxing's luster here. You guys across the pond have had good pickings lately!
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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