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#421291 - 08/05/09 01:32 PM UFC 101: predictions?
Supremor Offline
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Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
Looks like a decent card to me, with a great pair of headline bouts.


Main card:

BJ Penn Vs. Kenny Florian
Anderson Silva Vs. Forrest Griffin
Amir Sadollah Vs. Johny Hendricks
Kendall Grove Vs. Ricardo Almeida
Josh Neer Vs. Kurt Pellegrino

Prelims:

Shane Nelson Vs. Aaron Riley
Tamdan McCrory Vs. John Howard
Thales Leites Vs. Alessio Sakara
Matthew Riddle Vs. Dan Cramer
George Sotiropoulos Vs. George Roop
Jesse Lennox Vs. Danillo Villefort


Edited by Supremor (08/05/09 01:32 PM)

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#421292 - 08/05/09 01:41 PM Re: UFC 101: predictions? [Re: Supremor]
Dereck Offline
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No predictions as of yet but do hope that Kenny Florian tears BJ Penn a new a$$. Also hope the Forrest Griffin puts on a great fight with Anderson Silva. I think Silva fights to the caliber of his opponent so with Forrest always on the move, we should see more action from Silva then we did in his last fights.
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#421293 - 08/05/09 01:52 PM Re: UFC 101: predictions? [Re: Supremor]
Supremor Offline
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Registered: 07/22/04
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BJ Penn vs. Kenny Florian:

I know that BJ is absurdly talented and that, but I'm just not sure what to think about this fight. Florian is such a good strategist and has been very impressive of late, and Penn has been known to be a bit lazy and overconfident. But, he is undisputably, IMO, the best lightweight in the world on any given day and that will save him against 99% of challengers. The question is whether Florian can come up with a methodical strategy to peck away at Penn while standing and manage it for all five rounds. Penn's striking is always underrated and Florian will have to be on top performance to win a decision. It is a great match-up, and I have honestly no idea which way it will go. But, I have this feeling in my chest that it will be Florian, so I'm going with him on a whim.

Silva vs. Griffin

Poor old Anderson Silva, getting a huge LHW after his less than spectacular performance last time out. That is the real question for this match, because anyone can see that Silva is technically superior in just about every area. When you consider Silva's scary accuracy, and Griffin's sometimes lacking defence, I think it's difficult to bet against Silva. If Griffin is able to get a takedown and wear Silva down for three rounds, or stay safe in the clinch while doing a bit of damage, then he stands a fair chance. However, everyone has tried to put Silva down, with little success- you remember his brief spell on the ground against Franklin? And those who tangle with his clinch game go down in a hail of knees- see Franklin again for details. I just can't see how Griffin can win this, which is why I'm giving it to Silva for a KO victory.

The rest of the card doesn't interest me much, but I will say that Sadollah is being given an easy to get him back on track after his injury problems; Kendall Grove should beat Almeida, although frankly I don't much like his as a fighter.

Poor Thales Leites for getting shoved onto the prelims like that. Guess the UFC is firmly stating what it expects from its fighters crazy

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#421295 - 08/05/09 02:11 PM Re: UFC 101: predictions? [Re: Supremor]
MattJ Offline
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BJ Penn Vs. Kenny Florian -
Tough call. BJ is utterly dominant at 155, but Kenny has made amzing improvements in his game. I'm pulling for Kenny to take this, but the gut says BJ is still the master here. BJ needs to bring it, and from what I've read, he is taking Kenny seriously.

Anderson Silva Vs. Forrest Griffin -

Again, pulling for Forrest here, but I don't see any skill advantage for him against Silva. Silva should be wary of Forrest's striking power, but I don't see Silva as lax in that regard.

Thales Leites Vs. Alessio Sakara -

Unless Sakara has massively improved his ground game, he is likely to be tooled there.
_________________________
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#421302 - 08/05/09 04:41 PM Re: UFC 101: predictions? [Re: MattJ]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
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If Griffin can bring all the granite in his chin, it will be intresting to see how Anderson deals with someone not only pushing the pace, but potentialy walking through or surviving some of his excellent mid range striking.

Its tempting to see this as 'Rocky' for MMA, but Griffin has some serious scalps, and cojones the size of bowling balls. He beat Jackson fair and square, anyone with eyes could see that he beat Tito (apart from the judges of course :/), and on his night, he can upset anyone, The Spider included.

I just cant get excited about anything involving BJ Penn, I just want him to lose as much as possible, and remove his babyfaced arrogant person from my TV screen asap
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#421311 - 08/05/09 10:30 PM Re: UFC 101: predictions? [Re: Cord]
VDJ Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1671
I like Florian to win this one with the way he's been "Finishing" lately. But unlike others here, Penn doesn't get under my skin like he does some of you. I like to watch him fight. His flexability is remarkable.

Though I would like to see Griffin win, logic tells me Silva and I think if Silva wins it brings on his match up with GSP. That would be a great fight. GSP's takedown percentage is rediculously high and I think its a pretty even match. The question is what weight class do they go to? Does GSP go up or does the Spider come down? Either way I think the advantage goes to GSP as you don't deplete yourself going up in weight the way you do having to suck it off!

VDJ

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#421313 - 08/06/09 04:37 AM Re: UFC 101: predictions? [Re: VDJ]
Cord Offline
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You wouldn't be impressed with BJ's flexibility if you had dated the professional dancer I did in 2000 wink

I agree that the only logical fight in the world out there right now is GSP vs Silva. Everyone want to see it, and whilst i suspect the occassion would get to both, leading to inevitable spectator disappointment, it is only a matter of time till it happens - truly MMA's first 'Superfight' , it will be the next stage in mainstream acceptance after Griffin v Bonnar 1.
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#421368 - 08/07/09 01:09 PM Re: UFC 101: UK broadcast information [Re: Cord]
Cord Offline
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Loc: Cambridge UK.
For those of us in the UK, UFC 100 was free to view due to the collapse of the PPV channel that had the broadcast rights for UFC.

No such luck this time round, as ESPN have picked up the UK contract for this, and all future UFC broadcasts.
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#421370 - 08/07/09 02:33 PM Re: UFC 101: UK broadcast information [Re: Cord]
MattJ Offline
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Silva vs GSP would be probably the greatest MMA fight extant. The UFC appears hesitant to put it together at this point, though.
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#421372 - 08/07/09 03:30 PM Re: UFC 101: UK broadcast information [Re: MattJ]
Dereck Offline
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GSP was on OTR (Off The Record with Michael Landsberg) just after UFC 100.

http://watch.tsn.ca/off-the-record/#clip195699

It was done by voice only and is a short talk. He discusses Anderson Silva. Take a look.
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#421374 - 08/07/09 04:07 PM Re: UFC 101: UK broadcast information [Re: Dereck]
SifuHax Offline
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Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
The Silva vs Griffin fight isn't a title bout? Only three rounds?


Edited by SifuHax (08/07/09 04:11 PM)
Edit Reason: typo
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#421376 - 08/07/09 04:48 PM Re: UFC 101: UK broadcast information [Re: SifuHax]
MattJ Offline
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Silva is a middleweight champion (185), moving up a weight class to light heavyweight (205). It's also not a title bout because Forrest is no longer the Champion at 205 - Lyoto Machida is.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#421379 - 08/07/09 05:53 PM Re: UFC 101: UK broadcast information [Re: MattJ]
Supremor Offline
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Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
And it is doubtful whether Silva will ever fight Machida. They are team mates, and Silva has openly said that he would not fight Machida- "it is Leota's division." GSP - Silva would be an interesting match-up, but again, GSP would be very much outweighed, since Silva is not likely to drop weight- there isn't enough on him for that.

It's also difficult to see what the rewards are for Silva, apart from the fan interest. A loss for either fighter would mean serious questions were asked. For example, if GSP beats Silva, it instantly damages faith in the middleweight division as a whole, and makes Silva's position quite difficult for future fights. That is to say, who do you want to fight if you want to be considered the best middleweight: Silva or GSP the man who beat him?

If Silva beats GSP, which is highly likely, then what will Silva get out of it? He will simply be told that he was the bigger fighter and faith will be restored once again in the weight category system. Are there any incentives whatsoever for Silva?

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#421395 - 08/09/09 12:35 AM Re: UFC 101: UK broadcast information [Re: Supremor]
SifuHax Offline
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Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Anderson Silva won!!!! First round KO via punch. I didn't see it. Waiting for the leak online. I don't know who won between Penn and Florian.
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#421396 - 08/09/09 02:17 AM Re: UFC 101: UK broadcast information [Re: SifuHax]
Neko456 Offline
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Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Silva won by knockout or TKo in the 1st round Forrest is just too brave.

BJ Penn RNC Kenny in the 4th round and was beating him up staning, just another level skill being the Champ. For Silva and BJ, both Forrest and Kenny are champion fighters as Griffin has proven. Just not tonight.
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#421399 - 08/09/09 06:18 AM Re: UFC 101: UK broadcast information [Re: Neko456]
SifuHax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riB_nljmXyI&feature=response_watch

This is the only video I could find, not that great, but it shows Silva's greatness anyway.
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#421400 - 08/09/09 06:56 AM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: SifuHax]
Cord Offline
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Registered: 01/13/05
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Loc: Cambridge UK.
1. Guys, if you are going to post results in a thread, please put a spoiler warning in the subject heading. Cheers.

2. Anderson Silva's performance in that fight is the first time one could truly liken an MMAist to Ali. That was incredible. His footwork, his reading and anticipation of Forrest, and his reflexes made the 90 seconds of that fight eerie to watch- he truly knew what Forrest was going to do before he did it, such was the extent to which he had assessed him.

He is the man.

In response to the 'whats in it for Silva in a fight with GSP?' I would simply say that Silva needs a challenge. I honestly cant see him needing to break a sweat fighting anyone other than GSP after that performance.
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#421406 - 08/09/09 08:38 AM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Cord]
Supremor Offline
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Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 2510
Loc: UK
WOW!!!!

That was absolutely incredible- I don't think I've ever seen a fight between two world class fighters look so lobsided. Silva's movement was simply extraordinary, while his laser like accuracy defies belief. The first left hook that Silva hit Griffin with made me realise how much better he was- he ducked under Griffin's punch, slammed in a left hook and was out again before Griffin could fire back. Just amazing!

The only way I can describe watching that fight, was by saying that I was shouting at my TV all the way through. Cord, you're right when you bring up the name Ali, that was the nearest thing to art I think I have ever seen in MMA.

Florian-Penn: Penn really showed some good ability in there, I don't think Florian had an advantage in any area. Penn seems to be in much better condition too, Goldberg was right to say he looked thicker. Once Penn got Florian to the mat, I think we all knew it was curtains for Kenny. Penn's jujitsu game is incredibly slick- did you see you fast he wacked on the RNC?

Those were two fights that completely justified an otherwise pretty average card.

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#421408 - 08/09/09 10:04 AM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Supremor]
JKogas Offline
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Originally Posted By: Supremor
The first left hook that Silva hit Griffin with made me realise how much better he was- he ducked under Griffin's punch, slammed in a left hook and was out again before Griffin could fire back. Just amazing!



I noticed that one as well and it was amazing. That was actually skilled boxing, which many guys really don't seem to exhibit.


Originally Posted By: Supremor

Cord, you're right when you bring up the name Ali, that was the nearest thing to art I think I have ever seen in MMA.



He moves a lot like him that's for sure. His ellusiveness and angles are amazing. Again, it just looks like someone with really good boxing. Why people continue to think they can trade with him is beyond me. I know the guy is also a good grappler, but come on! Wouldn't you rather chance being stuffed on a takedown than to willingly play the man at his own game?


Originally Posted By: Supremor

Florian-Penn: Penn really showed some good ability in there, I don't think Florian had an advantage in any area. Penn seems to be in much better condition too, Goldberg was right to say he looked thicker. Once Penn got Florian to the mat, I think we all knew it was curtains for Kenny. Penn's jujitsu game is incredibly slick- did you see you fast he wacked on the RNC?



I skipped through a lot of the fight which to me looked insanely boring (same exact situations over the most part of 4 rounds). I was amazed that BJ still had gas left in the tank by the end of the fight. I guess he really did change his conditioning routine (by that I mean, "have" a conditioning routine).

Penn's ability to avoid a takedown his incredible. His ground skills are world class. It's no surprise that the fight was decided on the mat.


Originally Posted By: Supremor

Those were two fights that completely justified an otherwise pretty average card.



AMEN TO THAT!


Edited by JKogas (08/09/09 11:12 AM)
Edit Reason: mistake

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#421411 - 08/09/09 11:08 AM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: JKogas]
MattJ Offline
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Check vids here while they last:

http://www.mmascraps.com/

Silva - Utterly dominant. Griffin didn't even make it out of the first round, and the skill level that Sliva showed with his striking was other-wordly. No one can complain about Silva's p4p rankings anymore.

I wouldn't want to be Dan Henderson looking at a rematch with Silva right now.

Penn - Also utterly dominant, although it took him 4 rounds to put away Florian. Kenny looked to have a good game plan, but didn't seem able to actually execute it. Penn's conditioning and mental toughness were at a level concurrent with his skill, which was not always the case in the past. His striking and his ground game (did you see him go effortlessly from back to mount to back again before choking Kenny out?!) were simply outstanding.
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"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#421416 - 08/09/09 12:58 PM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: MattJ]
Dereck Offline
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Silva - effortless, absolutely effortless.

Penn - conditioned and came to fight; the best BJ I have ever seen. Kenny is no slouch but was out skilled and out fought. Coming from me this means a lot since I am not a Penn fan.
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#421420 - 08/09/09 02:42 PM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Dereck]
Cord Offline
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Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: Dereck
Penn - conditioned and came to fight; the best BJ I have ever seen. Kenny is no slouch but was out skilled and out fought. Coming from me this means a lot since I am not a Penn fan.


Agreed. Presumably he spent less time 'running rocks', and hanging out with people last seen being handcuffed by Dwayne 'Dog' Chapman, and actually did some legitemate training. Its about time, though i have to say I do think he made heavy work of Florian, who whilst talented, I dont think has displayed game to put him at the top of the tree.
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#421434 - 08/09/09 08:47 PM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Cord]
TheCrab Offline
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Registered: 03/14/08
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I am in awe of Silva

Biggest ali/roy jones

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#421483 - 08/11/09 11:56 AM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: TheCrab]
Neko456 Offline
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Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
What I found amazing was everybody knows Forrest will bring it being a power puncher or good grappler won't beat him as in the his fight against Jackson, but against a superior accurate striker his bravery and courage is can be his undoing as that counter Right hand proved Forrest Griffin is not a quitter if he could continue he would have. He ran right into the shot probably didn't even see it. This was another case that speed kills/KUFO.


With Kenny I'd say the same thing he is a master grappler but its hard to grapple with a guy that has four arms, did you see those hard kicks to liver and small ribs by BJ before he clamped on that RNC, wow like Grappling with a Otopus. And how he easily went from mount to Kennys back with fighting for postion it seemed. As good a striker and grappler as Kenny is BJ was clearly stronger, except at kicking but Kenny couldn't hurt him with them.


Edited by Neko456 (08/11/09 12:05 PM)
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#421526 - 08/13/09 03:27 AM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Neko456]
Chen Zen Offline
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Registered: 02/09/03
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Not a Ken Flo fan though he has came up alot. I gotta go with Penn. If for no other reason than octagon experience and tougher opponents faced.

As for Silva, I think his times up. Forrest has been on fire the last year or so, he wants it badly, and can take a worse beating than ANYONE in MMA. Silva, as stated by someone above, fights to his competitors level which will be his downfall. Instead of going in and doing the job he's going to rely on forrest to set the pace. Forrest always comes forward, and he's willing to take hard shots to give hard shots. He's hard to put out and a fighter with that much heart is always dangerous rather or not he has any real skills. If he doenst win then my money says that its going to be a ref stoppage over a severe cut. He's a bleeder.
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#421528 - 08/13/09 05:13 AM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Chen Zen]
Cord Offline
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Loc: Cambridge UK.
Originally Posted By: Chen Zen
Not a Ken Flo fan though he has came up alot. I gotta go with Penn. If for no other reason than octagon experience and tougher opponents faced.

As for Silva, I think his times up. Forrest has been on fire the last year or so, he wants it badly, and can take a worse beating than ANYONE in MMA. Silva, as stated by someone above, fights to his competitors level which will be his downfall. Instead of going in and doing the job he's going to rely on forrest to set the pace. Forrest always comes forward, and he's willing to take hard shots to give hard shots. He's hard to put out and a fighter with that much heart is always dangerous rather or not he has any real skills. If he doenst win then my money says that its going to be a ref stoppage over a severe cut. He's a bleeder.


er, Chen, the fights have already happened smile You were right about Penn, but Silva destroyed Forrest with ease in round 1 with arguably the best demonstration of pure striking ability ever seen in the Octagon.
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#421566 - 08/14/09 01:50 PM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Cord]
Chen Zen Offline
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Registered: 02/09/03
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Loc: Ms
LOL wow. Been out of the loop for a little while. My son had two surgeries, And Im moving nearly cross country for my job, things have been crazy but getting better.

Hate to hear about Forrests loss, but cant wait to see it on Spike TV! I never buy the PPV. Kudos to Anderson though as i thought that this would have been his toughest opponent yet.
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#421569 - 08/14/09 02:48 PM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Chen Zen]
Dereck Offline
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His easiest opponent yet; effortless to say the least.

http://mmahits.com/fighters/forrest-griffin/ufc-101-anderson-silva-vs-forrest-griffin-fight-video/

Just think, all of Silva's great fights have been against aggressive in your face fighters; that is what Forrest is. While Forrest is a talented and tough kid he is still one dimensional in his fight game. What Forrest does have going for him is his personality and great charisma; unfortunately in the ring that doesn't account for much.

What the UFC needs to do to keep Silva's fights exciting is to find people like that however with some fighters such as Patrick Cote who normally is an in your face fighter, some are getting smarter and not being as aggressive knowing Silva's game. Just like Silva likes to size up his opponents in the first round to come up with a game plan for attack, some are starting to do this and that makes it not exciting.

Not to drag up old blood Chen but what has happened to your own training to fight MMA? To dethrown Silva?

http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubbth...3972#Post403972
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#421574 - 08/14/09 06:06 PM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Dereck]
Chen Zen Offline
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Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 7043
Loc: Ms
Thanks for the link, Ill have to check that out in a moment. As for my training for silva, almost as soon as I joined a gym, I had to quit. I was in a car accident, which had me in physical therapy. Im good now, though. Then my son Noah was born, and there were tons of complications. My wife nearly died in delivery. Then a few weeks after his birth he got sick, and shortly after he developed a hernia. The sickness and hernia were brought on from a condition called (sp) Hypertheric Poleric Stenosis. That brought about several doctor visits, and two surgeries. One for the stenosis and another later on for the hernia. Then after all the dust settled and I was able to get back to training my company transferred to Florida which Im still in the process of moving, which is nearly a cross country move. Once settled here though (Ocala Florida) I plan to research and find a good MMA gym to get back into. The Silva fight may never happen but I do hope, dream, and plan to fight, at a professional level.
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#421575 - 08/14/09 06:16 PM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Chen Zen]
Chen Zen Offline
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Loc: Ms
I just watched the fight. Sad. I notice that Forrest did very little to move to the outside of Anderson's lead. He kept his hands low. And if you watch around the 3:45 mark, (video time, not fight time) you notice that anderson has his hands down low, relying on head movement. Forrest throws a small combo and lifts his leg as if to kick. had he actually thrown the kick it may have landed. He didnt press the action like he has in other fights and it truly looked to me as if he was star struck and afraid. Anderson had to do very little to win. 3-4 punches. I really thought that it would have gone the distance yet it seems that neither of them even broke a sweat. I truly hope that I get the chance to fight on that level, and against him. Even if he destroyed me like he has others, i believe I would have put in more effort than Forrest did there, and i would be honored to do so, win or lose.
_________________________
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#421694 - 08/18/09 10:53 AM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Chen Zen]
Neko456 Offline
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Registered: 01/18/05
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You think you can do better then the ex light heavyweight Champion that is very ambitious. Forrest Griffin is one of the elite in the MMA his heart and tenacity is above par in most of his other fights he has demonstrarated that. But like Forrest stated in a pre fight interview he knew Anderson was faster and that was the really key. Forrest Griffin is a good striker and grappler with good combinations but Silva is a excellent striker and good grappler. To me Forrest should have taken it to the ground maybe then he would have had a better chance but Anderseb hits hard even while grappling.

As for Forrest not bring it he was on the attack when he was caught by that counter right, ran right into it. I like Forrest Griffin also and still think he is one of the elite fighters but Andersen Silva is an awesome strikers.

For whAt its worth I like to see you fight in the MMA aLSO but let's start at the bottom and work our way up, like everyone else.
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#421695 - 08/18/09 11:17 AM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Neko456]
Cord Offline
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I totaly agree Neko, no way that Forrest could be accused of not taking the fight to Anderson with full effort, not be accused of being anything less than a top level fighter.

It just so happens that he was up against something truly special. In the same way as Ussain Bolt is something more than fast, and Muhammed Ali was more than a boxer.

I truly believe that this fight was not an example of Griffin's limitations, but of Anderson's magic.
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#422166 - 09/07/09 08:43 PM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Cord]
Chen Zen Offline
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Im not Convinced. Im honestly a bigger griffin fan than silvia, though I like them both. The reason I like Griffin more it his pitbull mentality. Even when he's hurt, half out on his feet, he's coming forward and swinging it out. Love that. Im not sayting that he should have won, but he could have I believe.

And yeah, Anderson's special. But before him, franklin was special. There will be someone else that everyone idolizes just as soon as anderson loses or retires. Way of the world.
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#422176 - 09/08/09 06:00 AM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Chen Zen]
Cord Offline
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Franklin was never considered 'special' . If anything, there were accusations that he was being protected as a potential new 'poster boy' for the sport. I still think its very convenient that Matt Lindland, a spoiling, ground and pound gorilla, who would, in all probablility have given Franklin some real problems, if not flat out beat him, suddenly got banned from UFC for a technical breach of contract just around the time he would have had a shot at Franklin.
I like Franklin, he is a solid talented fighter, but we have seen time and again what Silva does to solid talented fighters. He played with Griffin, he dropped his hands, and stood there and said 'brawl away, knock me out if you can' , and he couldnt touch him. Then he dispatched him with ease.

Forrest is a living breathing Rocky Balboa, he seems a nice guy with a fighting heart, but he could have walked in their with a baseball bat against Silva and not had the footwork or timing to make it make a difference. He was completely outclassed.
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#422221 - 09/09/09 05:46 PM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Cord]
Chen Zen Offline
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Never considered special? Before Anderson, almost no one thought that Franklin could be beat. He was outclassing fighters like Anderson did to him and so many others.

Standing up, had griffin not been afraid of Andersons speed/power, I believe he could have done damage to him. Sure Anderson is faster, and more technical striker, that doesnt mean a lot to a man who, as shown in most of his fights, isnt afraid to get hit or hurt and can give out as much as he takes.

I dont know if Anderson "Outclassed" him, but it was definately an easy win for him and I feel like it was easy for him because Griffin laid down and gave up after taking that first hard shot, which isnt typical of him judging from his previous fights. Now that he has been in the ring with him, and knows firsthand what power speed and skills anderson possesses, Id like to see them fight again. The end result may very well be the same but i bet that the fight is going to be longer and way more entertaining than this one was.
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#422227 - 09/10/09 05:41 AM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Chen Zen]
Cord Offline
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I just think we saw different fights Chen. If Forrest had gone in harder quicker, he just would have been knocked out quicker. He didnt 'give up' , he was charging in when he got put to sleep. Anderson had to taunt him into bringing it, as he had already hurt him, and Forrest was trying to re-think his tactics to make a fight of it. Anderson beat his chest, dropped his hands and said 'come on!', Griffin tried to do what he does best, and 3 seconds later he was asleep on the floor.
Watch it again - its right there in HD technicolour slo mo.
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#422228 - 09/10/09 07:14 AM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Cord]
MattJ Offline
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Yeah, I think I agree with Cord here. I didn't see where Forest had given up at all. He was literally going in after Silva when he got KO'd. "Outclassed" would be an accurate description, IMHO.
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#422231 - 09/10/09 09:33 AM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: MattJ]
Dereck Offline
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Agreed as well; Forrest never quits his only failings are he is one dimensional and predictable; very easy for Silva to train for. If Forrest quit anything he quit the fans and himself by running out of the ring "again". Silva is just that much better then the competition he has been up against; that is something that could never be said about Franklin in his prime especially with the Matt Linland thing always in the background. Franklin for sure had hard and was a good fighter but not on the same level as Silva that was proven twice; devastatingly I might add. Plus Franklin never dominated any fighter like Silva has with the exception of a young Nate Quarry; can you say highlight reel.

No, at this point I don't see any fighter on Silva's level. Even my GSP I love dearly as a fighter I would fear for him though wouldn't count him out.
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#422232 - 09/10/09 10:43 AM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Dereck]
MattJ Offline
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Yes, I would probably have to give Silva the advantage against GSP. Silva has the reach, and is a better striker, although GSP and his wrestling would make for a tough match.

I would also love to see Silva against Frank Mir, LOL.
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#422234 - 09/10/09 01:01 PM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: MattJ]
Neko456 Offline
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There is suppose to he a post fight video of Forrest explaing why he ran out of th ring. Personally he has nothing to aplogize for. He has proven himself in his patt fights and becoming the Champion of his divison, you can't win all the time and disppointments happen. We all know. He did his best with the battle plans you brought in, though I think leg kicking and taking him to the ground would have served you better. Silva actually used Forests' courage and williness to give and take against him Knowing that he could bait him into attacking, becaue Forrest will bring it.

Silva is a striker on another level.
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#422235 - 09/10/09 03:25 PM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Neko456]
Chen Zen Offline
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Yeah, he was going in when he got caught, but he didnt press the action like he normally has whichis why Silva taunted and baited him into it. Im just saying, it didnt look like the typical forrest fight to me, thats all.

Oh yeah, and Anderson is God. Whatever. I dont get all starry eyed and wonderstruck by the things he does like alot of people do. Thats not to take anything away from him, he is highly talented and skilled, but Im not so amazed to say that he's the best out or the greatest ever. Theres plenty of guys with the same attributes, talent and skills that he has, afterall, he's only human.
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#422238 - 09/10/09 06:13 PM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Chen Zen]
Cord Offline
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Originally Posted By: Chen Zen
Yeah, he was going in when he got caught, but he didnt press the action like he normally has whichis why Silva taunted and baited him into it. Im just saying, it didnt look like the typical forrest fight to me, thats all.


And why do you think that is? Could it be that he got caught, felt Andersons power and thought better of it in the 1st few seconds of the fight? Best will in the world to the guy, but taking the best of Stephan Bonnar, and taking the best of The Spider are completely different propsitions, and that is why his tactics changed.

Quote:
Oh yeah, and Anderson is God. Whatever. I dont get all starry eyed and wonderstruck by the things he does like alot of people do.


I fail to see how you could not see his timing, his judgement of distance, and his reflexes in that fight as anything other than extraordinary.

Quote:
Thats not to take anything away from him, he is highly talented and skilled, but Im not so amazed to say that he's the best out or the greatest ever.


He doesnt have to be, and such subjective titles are ephemeral at best - like 'P4P', its daft. I would say however, that he displays all the attributes to put him in the echelons of the truly great athletes. Carl Lewis, Ali, Anderson, Bolt, Phelps, Hoye etc. A rare list of the elite who had a 'gift' to make the elite of their opposition look ordinary.
You said it yourself, Forrest didnt look as good as he has in other fights. My contention is that this is not because Forrest underperformed, but that the gulf between them was such that his best seemed clumsy and ineffectual.

Quote:
Theres plenty of guys with the same attributes, talent and skills that he has, afterall, he's only human.


Please name them. Marquadt? Franklin? Forrest (x2)?, Rampage? Liddell? Jardine?

Great fighters all, 3 of which have already been destroyed by Anderson.

Right now, his biggest challenge is staying motivated to train and not get complacent. If not carefull, he could defeat himself.

The only challenge he has in the form of an oponent who I could see having comparable ability is GSP.

I understand why you want to believe Forrest could take Anderson - he has that 'everyman' image that is very appealing, and very inspirational to a lot of aspiring fighters, no doubt yourself included. He is 'only human' and indeed, is at pains to never let us forget that, so if he can win, then every guy sweating on every mat in the world can win. The truth is that Griffin has been above that level since before we ever heard of him, but has played a nice PR game with a winning smile, and still couldnt touch Anderson.
Imagine how quick he would have dropped had he really been an 'average joe' like the rest of us.
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#422240 - 09/10/09 09:09 PM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Cord]
Chen Zen Offline
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You make some good points, as usual Dave. Like you said, he felt Anderson's Power early and it changed his fight. I said that myself a few points earlier. But surely a fighter on his level,above the "average Joe", knows that there are ways around this. For example, the ground game, which he failed to attempt. Its never the best option, when changing tactics, to simply become defensive. Sure he had SOME offense but it appeared to me to be out of necessity. An attempt to use offense as a defense. Perhaps in the outside world those tactics MAY work but in a NHB competition setting, defense alone will not allow you to prevail. Even if he survived every round, points alone would have lost the fight for him.

Seeing his attributes as extraordinary? Why? When he fought against someone who apparently shouldnt have been in the ring with him? Thats like saying that a BJJ BB has extroardinary skills because he out wrestled the neighbors kid. Sure, he displayed good things, but it was against an opponent who wasnt suppose to win. That doesnt seem extraordinary to me. Enough to put him in that upper tier, sure. He's done that already. To me though, extraordinary is when you have an opposition that nearly does you in, and your still able to pull out all the stops and get the win. I remember one of the early UFC fights when groin hitting was still allowed. This guy, cant remember who, but this guy is on his back, ankles behind his head and his opponent has him "Mounted" and strikes him in the sack at least 20 times. The guy on his back eventually was able to manuever out of it and win the fight. Thats extraordinary. If he would have went in and just grappled the guy and submitted him, it would have been like a billion other fights Ive seen.

Perhaps the gulf between them is that big, however I dont think that its a fair thing to say when he attempted to do very little.

As for my wanting forrest to win, it has more to do with Anderson than Forrest really. I like Forrest, of course, but Id be happy to see anyone defeat Anderson because of the pedestal that he has been put on, and because he truly believes that he is the best in the world and to me thats just foolish. And, I always tend to root for the "UnderDog".
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#422246 - 09/11/09 04:12 AM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Chen Zen]
medulanet Offline
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Registered: 09/03/03
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Originally Posted By: Chen Zen
You make some good points, as usual Dave. Like you said, he felt Anderson's Power early and it changed his fight. I said that myself a few points earlier. But surely a fighter on his level,above the "average Joe", knows that there are ways around this. For example, the ground game, which he failed to attempt. Its never the best option, when changing tactics, to simply become defensive. Sure he had SOME offense but it appeared to me to be out of necessity. An attempt to use offense as a defense. Perhaps in the outside world those tactics MAY work but in a NHB competition setting, defense alone will not allow you to prevail. Even if he survived every round, points alone would have lost the fight for him.


Even Forrest has admitted himself he has horrible takedowns. So if he can't take him down he would have to pull guard. And he couldn't even touch Silva. How could he take him to the ground?

Quote:
Seeing his attributes as extraordinary? Why? When he fought against someone who apparently shouldnt have been in the ring with him? Thats like saying that a BJJ BB has extroardinary skills because he out wrestled the neighbors kid. Sure, he displayed good things, but it was against an opponent who wasnt suppose to win. That doesnt seem extraordinary to me. Enough to put him in that upper tier, sure. He's done that already. To me though, extraordinary is when you have an opposition that nearly does you in, and your still able to pull out all the stops and get the win. I remember one of the early UFC fights when groin hitting was still allowed. This guy, cant remember who, but this guy is on his back, ankles behind his head and his opponent has him "Mounted" and strikes him in the sack at least 20 times. The guy on his back eventually was able to manuever out of it and win the fight. Thats extraordinary. If he would have went in and just grappled the guy and submitted him, it would have been like a billion other fights Ive seen.


I guess you forget when Travis Lutter had Silva mounted and rained down punches on Silva. Well Silva survived and came back and submitted Lutter, who was supposed to be better than Silva on the ground.

Quote:
Perhaps the gulf between them is that big, however I dont think that its a fair thing to say when he attempted to do very little.


He did just about all he could before getting knocked out in the middle of the 1st round. What more could he have done?

Quote:
As for my wanting forrest to win, it has more to do with Anderson than Forrest really. I like Forrest, of course, but Id be happy to see anyone defeat Anderson because of the pedestal that he has been put on, and because he truly believes that he is the best in the world and to me thats just foolish. And, I always tend to root for the "UnderDog".


If anyone one in the UFC has earned a spot on this pedestal, who could it possibly be if not Silva. No one has his record in the UFC of beating the very best. The better his competition gets the better he gets.
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#422248 - 09/11/09 07:40 AM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: medulanet]
Cord Offline
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What Medulanet said. *Cord's keyboard breathes a sigh of relief* wink
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#422251 - 09/11/09 09:33 AM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Chen Zen]
Dereck Offline
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Originally Posted By: Chen Zen
Oh yeah, and Anderson is God. Whatever. I dont get all starry eyed and wonderstruck by the things he does like alot of people do.


I can assure you I am not starry eyed for Anderson Silva, I just can see the truth. I can't wait for somebody to beat him but right now I can't see it with the present talent unless it is by luck.

I foresee the following happen. (1) He goes undefeated and retires shortly. (2) He continues to fight but his skills degrade enough for somebody to win. (3) Somebody gets lucky and capitalizes on a mistake. As of current at his skill level, confidence level, fitness level and fight mentality, there are few in this sport that have reached this pinnacle. When somebody does beat him it will shock in awe the world; let's just hope it isn't a Serra/GSP type of awe but a real awe due to a better talent.
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#422253 - 09/11/09 10:12 AM Re: UFC 101: SPOILERS [Re: Chen Zen]
MattJ Offline
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Haha, not to dog-pile you here Chen, but I wanted to comment on this:

Quote:
I remember one of the early UFC fights when groin hitting was still allowed. This guy, cant remember who, but this guy is on his back, ankles behind his head and his opponent has him "Mounted" and strikes him in the sack at least 20 times. The guy on his back eventually was able to manuever out of it and win the fight. Thats extraordinary.


I think you may be thinking of the Keith Hackney/Joe Son fight, where Hackney struck Son in the groin many times. I saw that fight when it came on originally, too. But Son lost that fight.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Mva-3n7TY

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Son

Otherwise agreed with Medulanent et al.
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