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#420894 - 07/16/09 06:25 PM Crime info / Defense Links
Chufu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 6
Self-defense!
7/13/09

The very instrument that has kept us free, self-defense is becoming an illegal act because of our own rules. If you are attacked and fight back you could be arrested and face the same crime as your attacker.
A young man in our local school saved ten dollars a week for fifteen weeks to buy a coat. His parents were proud that he was learning to work for what he wanted. Another boy, a bully, took the coat away from the boy and wore it around the school. The parents were told it might be dangerous for their son if the police were called or if they demanded the coat back.
Years ago my youngest daughter was given three days off from school for fighting. Even at face value that is just a vacation.
The principal informed me that my daughter did not start the fight. The boy grabbed her earring swinging her around and tearing it out. Then her grabbed the chain around her neck and started to choke her and then she struck him. For that they both got three days off. Where is the philosophy that says you don't put your hands on a girl and if you do, you will be in trouble? I guess it is that new teaching, no-tolerance. How is that working out? Many parents and students have gone through this to their horror.
The work of any enemy is to tie the hands and prevent self-defense in any area that they can control. Blame the innocent is the tactic. Schools are a great place because when the rules come down most of those teachers are not going to protect your child at the expense of their job. They work for the system and many bow to the state right or wrong. It is a terrible situation to be in.
I do understand the delicate situation of the teachers. However the message is clear. If you don't let the next boy beat you while you act like a "good little girl" we will punish you again. These same people who check your child for a bruise are letting future women beaters bruise them in school.
No one person can force any child to be like Ghandi, it comes from within. And he took a beating for political reasons. He was clear on this, if someone comes to harm or kill your family and you stand by and let it happen, then you are not a pacifist, you are a coward!
We stand by and let the school system abuse our daughters all the time because we think we can't do anything. Our enemies want to tie our hands and our minds against the very thought that we have the right to self-defense.
Automation man is here with humans frozen inside because someone with a higher degree gives them a rule to obey even if it doesn't contain one ounce of common sense. Great new ideas of educational deception.
One student told me how he fought off a school bully and he was thrown out. He protested on the grounds of self-defense. He was told there is no such thing as self-defense there was only self-control.
This statement suggest that people defending against violent attacks are "out of control." This entire rule is all about control. Mind control. If you can feel the "tie" you may be right for the part. Shouldn't we embody the philosophy of freedom? Shouldn't we look for, ever new and greater challenges? Well, here is the challenge, try to keep your freedom from being punished for something someone else did.
Perhaps the activist-minded young coming up will help figure a way out of this. It is one of many serious problems in a world that is mad with power.
Today innocent people are losing the right to bear arms because the state feels threatened. Tomorrow the state may object to you having a belt because you could use it as a weapon against the state. The role of the activist is not for the future, they are needed now!
No-tolerance is not a policy that does anything except free the school staff from having to stand up for what is right. No-tolerance equals tolerance of the bully over their victims. It is a policy that hurts people who did not want a confrontation and did nothing wrong. They were attacked. Schools are caving in over these issues and experimenting with your children everyday. If they would stand up, then the policy could have some effect. When a child is attacked, do not punish them.
If you see the fight stick up for the person who did not start it, fight the system. Do not tolerate innocent people getting into trouble with the troublemaker without exposure of the whole incident.
Treating everyone the same doesn't mean punishing the innocent. That is what is wrong. Do not take the blame for something you did not do without a fight for the truth.
I asked this question of our local school board about my daughter's attack. How far could a boy go before a girl could defend herself and not be punished? Would rape do it? I was then told, "no-tolerance means just what it says."
It is true as some in Congress say, "We are in for the fight of our lives."

Norman G. Bigelow

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#420914 - 07/17/09 06:05 PM Re: Crime info / Defense Links [Re: Chufu]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
What a load of garbled, psuedo-politica,l messageless, paranoid crap. Construct a real argument and try spacing out your text, lol.

Kids getting beat up in school and suspended for it isn't anything new, there are very good reasons to punish both parties involved in school fights, and it's common practice, and has been since I was a kid at least.

It also has NOTHING to do with your feelings on gun control or "the state", or pacificism, or any of that.


Edited by Zach_Zinn (07/17/09 06:09 PM)

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#420937 - 07/19/09 09:34 PM Re: Crime info / Defense Links [Re: Zach_Zinn]
Chufu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 6
Date: 7/18/09 3:52:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: mail@survivalfighting4women.com
To: rosabellhh@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)



Dear Norman,

Thankyou very much for your recent contribution.

When I read it I thought, "I wish I'd written that!"

Have you read a book called "Dumbing us Down" by J.T. Gatto?

It talks about the damage the state education system is doing to our
children. I suspect you would love it.

Another one of my favourite authors is Claire Wolfe. She writes
passionately about the erosion of personal freedoms and the grinding
oppression of the state.

Of course I recommend "Atlas Shrugged" to everyone who can read, and
"Unintended Consequences" by John Ross to those who can read and who have
a strong stomach.

Thanks again,

D,K,L&CC

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#420938 - 07/19/09 09:55 PM Re: Crime info / Defense Links [Re: Chufu]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
What are you doing on this board? Just posting random BS and reposting private emails?

Do you have something to say which is relevant to crime info/self defense or not?

Do you practice or train martial arts?

There is enough crap like this on this board, i.e. stuff having nothing to do with martial arts that is basically just dressed up spam. PLEASE please don't add to it man!

Perhaps you can find a libertarian forum or something somewhere...your subject matter here doesn't seem to fit.



Edited by Zach_Zinn (07/19/09 10:00 PM)

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#420940 - 07/19/09 10:21 PM Re: Crime info / Defense Links [Re: Zach_Zinn]
Chufu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 6
Subj: (no subject)
Date: 7/19/09 10:17:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Rosabellhh
To: Devachan2000



Self Defense Part B.

Many of our public schools are sewers and breading grounds for violence and total frustration. In spite of that many of our leaders vote to send billions of dollars out of our country. With that kind of money every public school in America could be safe and have everything they need to teach. There is not much for the concern of America's children by our federal government.
With all the educated people in education schools are much worse than when I was young. It is not the American way to punish the innocent. So who's way is it? You can't protect yourself in school, on the streets or even in your home in many states.
How the Marxist must love those making the rules because they are realizing their dream of taking over without a shot through those people and their rules that are not working.
The non violence taught in school is not the non violence taught by masters, it is a fraud and equal to pulling claws from a cat and leaving him off in the deep forest. If any school tied your hands and let a bully beat you, that school could face both criminal and civil charges. Yet they are doing exactly that with unfair rules.
If you are beaten and don't fight back, try to find a radical lawyer that is not afraid of the school system. You were beaten because of rules and intimidation about protecting yourself. The school rules cause the violence to be worse. It may even be child abuse. File every charge you can, both criminal and civil. Make a stand. You have a God given or if you wish a natural right of self-defense and only your sworn enemy will take that away.

Norman Bigelow

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#420942 - 07/19/09 10:33 PM Re: Crime info / Defense Links [Re: Chufu]
Chufu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 6
Yes I practice Judo and Karate as well as some wrestling and i believe what I have said is all about self defense and the right to it. You seem to think you have a lock on the subject. You should know we don't just fight with our body but also our mind.
lets leave the school out of it for a moment and you say there is a reason both people are punished.
What is the reason if you are attacked on the street and fight to save your life in many states you are arrested? why are people arrested for shooting someone breaking into their home in the middle of the night?
I don't know how old you are but I have been around a while. when I was in school and a fight broke out the first question was, who started it? I did not get bounced if the other person started it. So what is the good reason both people are punished?
I saw a student catch a punch to the face with his hand and stop the punch. The principle saw it and threw them both out.
As far as paranoid, when the school board tell me if a boy is in the act of a rape of my daughter and she fights back she can be thrown out, thats it for me. Now I want to fight the whole school system. So yes this is about fighting even if it is over your head. Are you a school teacher? Norm Bigelow

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#420946 - 07/20/09 01:16 AM Re: Crime info / Defense Links [Re: Chufu]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Quote:

What is the reason if you are attacked on the street and fight to save your life in many states you are arrested? why are people arrested for shooting someone breaking into their home in the middle of the night?



Do you really have to ask this? Are you (**&ing serious man? The reason both parties are arrested is pretty basic, it is not the police job to interpret the law, and they have no way of knowing the circumstances beforehand, therefore both parties (usually) get arrested then we have this thing called a "trial"...maybe you've heard of it. No offense but that kind of lack of understanding of the theoretical basics of our judicial system nakes it hard to have this discussion, do you think we'd live in a better society if police passed sentencing and decided cases on the spot instead of having courts? For someone so in love with individual liberty that's a pretty silly complaint for you to make.

Quote:

I don't know how old you are but I have been around a while.



Don't play that card on me, so have I and i've actually been attacked, jumped, etc. before, in fact, i've been pepper sprayed for defending myself in a fight, and I don't blame the cop who did it, al he knew was there were two guys much bigger than him duking it out, who is he supposed to listen to?


Quote:
hen I was in school and a fight broke out the first question was, who started it? I did not get bounced if the other person started it. So what is the good reason both people are punished?
I saw a student catch a punch to the face with his hand and stop the punch. The principle saw it and threw them both out.
As far as paranoid, when the school board tell me if a boy is in the act of a rape of my daughter and she fights back she can be thrown out, thats it for me. Now I want to fight the whole school system. So yes this is about fighting even if it is over your head. Are you a school teacher? Norm Bigelow


Then when you were in school people were pretty naive I guess, as both parties will almost always say "he started it".

Am I a teacher? No but now that you mention it many in my family are school teachers, and I can say with some confidence that there is a pretty good, basic, logical reason to detain both parties (in school or law) until the truth is discerned.

Did this actually happen to your daughter?


P.S. I will tell you straight up, all this "Marxist taking over" stuff makes you sound like an inconsequential kook, it has nothing to do with the subject at hand, and it only serves to undermine whatever argument you are actually trying to make here.

Nothing you wrote is "over my head" or anyone elses. it does however appear to be mostly just emotional outbursts about your situation, I wonder what you even hope to accomplish by posting this stuff, are you looking to actually discuss something or just vent?

Anyway personally i'm done feeding the troll until you post something worth talking about, instead of just a very, very thinly veiled excuse to rant about your own political ideals.

You have 4 posts on the forum so far, they are all this thread, you do realize this is a martial arts forum, right?


Edited by Zach_Zinn (07/20/09 03:51 AM)

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#420950 - 07/20/09 06:08 AM Re: Crime info / Defense Links [Re: Zach_Zinn]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Wait a sec Norm, you're an escape artist aren't you. Why didn't you just teach your daughter how to escape from these kind of situations.

Maybe you have spent too much of your life with illusion that you have difficulty seeing reality. laugh

seriously though:
I disagree with punishing the innocent, but as for the method of your post's I do tend to agree with Zach.
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

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#420952 - 07/20/09 08:27 AM Re: Crime info / Defense Links [Re: drgndrew]
Chufu Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 6
To answer your questions yes this really happened to my daughter and there was no lie because the principal said my daughter was attacked. Now I do not live under any illusions because I did teach my daughter and that was how she fought off the attack. One good wack to the ear and a finger to the evy stopped it. For that she was punished. it really makes no sense to even study martial arts if kids are going to get tossed from school or arrestedTo answer the question, yes I am an escape artist and now that i am old I have no nedd for martial arts as a sport. So I study oner a friend of mine who was special forces in nam. It is just for self defense. Not fancy but lethal. i am not alone about how I feel things are going in America. A lot of people old enough to see the difference knows our hands are tie with unfair laws and rule.
While I am at it, have you ever seen any rope escapes as done by martial artist? Norm

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#420968 - 07/20/09 09:35 PM Re: Crime info / Defense Links [Re: Chufu]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Originally Posted By: Chufu

While I am at it, have you ever seen any rope escapes as done by martial artist? Norm


LOL not unless you consider detangling Manrikigusari (weighted chain) from around various body parts grin

I understand your frustration with the system, and your rather emotionally charged posts are natural considering your daughters involvement.

Yes it does suck, but at the moment sadly this is the reality of the situation.

They have the best interest of the school in mind and that includes the students. Sadly as with any organisation the individual will often suffer as a consequence of trying to do the best for the majority.

With the litigious nature of the USA population, they have to protect their own arses, I imagine they have limited financial sources as is the situation for most educational institutes across the globe. if they are sued then it may very well be disadvantageous to the students, further reducing limited resources, and limiting the choice and opportunities for the students. in this situation it is better to sacrifice one student to prevent disadvantaging the whole community. of course when your that sacrificial student its hard to see the bigger picture.

The schools primary focus in this sort of thing is prevention hence the tough stand of zero tolerance. this approach is rather effective at reducing incidents, the problem with this
approach is that their is little leeway and /or options after the fact.

School policy is rarely in line with general society laws. just because the school chose to punish both students, doesn't mean you can't pursue the matter legally yourself.

Also Norm as much as you will argue other wise, you must consider the possibility that your daughter was tottaly innocent in the incident, not saying her treatment was justified or she picked a fight or anything like that. but we can all remember what it was like as a teenager and with todays society I believe it to be even harder on the young adults of tomorrow.

We also can no longer use the "don't hit a girl" argument, (doesn't mean we shouldn't follow its advise) in the pc world of today we can't distinguish between the sex's, even when obvious.

Sometimes the school has their hands tied, it won't be changed by venting on a martial arts forum, Though it can be quite therapeutic. the only way to change this is approach the proper authorities, gain support in your local community and rally for change at the appropriate administrative level, one voice sounds like someone whinging, a community's voice is a society calling for change. ad your voice to your nieghbours and add your nieghbours voice to your street, add your street's voice to the suburb and just keep adding eventually it will be load enough to move mountains. (of course this only works if the community in general agrees with your lobby).

let your daughter know she did no wrong (providing that is the actual case), and sometimes doing the right thing doesn't always result in a pat on the back.

In my opinion fighting back is a perfectly acceptable action to violence, this how ever goes against the school policy, to be just in applying self defence we must strive to stay with in the bounds of policy and law that is imposed on us. that being said the individuals personal safety comes first.

Although it is sometimes misused, the old adage "Better to be judged by 12 then carried by six" is often an acceptable last resort rule.
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

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