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#420150 - 06/18/09 06:43 AM Re: Differences in JKD [Re: IExcalibui2]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:


But the fact that I can still gain position, is good enough for me because I'd probably want to G&P the guy more than anything else.






I think that's an excellent point. The last thing I'm going to be doing in a real fight is dicking around with submissions, with the possible exception of a choke. Otherwise it's all about position.

On a side note, many people think that BJJ is submission focused. But from my earliest days, I was told that it was all about position. Especially the TOP position(s).

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#420151 - 06/18/09 09:42 AM Re: Differences in JKD [Re: JKogas]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

On a side note, many people think that BJJ is submission focused. But from my earliest days, I was told that it was all about position. Especially the TOP position(s).




Exactly, John. My BJJ practice was focused entirely on gaining and maintaining TOP position. We were taught to only fight from guard if we had to. BJJ tourneys are also structured to give points to those who gain top position, too. Getting guard gets you nothing, unless you can get a submission.

Not sure where people get the idea that BJJ fighters *choose* to fight off the backs. We just train for that situation.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#420152 - 06/20/09 04:51 AM Re: Differences in JKD [Re: MattJ]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

Not sure where people get the idea that BJJ fighters *choose* to fight off the backs. We just train for that situation


Because most online sources and dvd heavily emphasize teaching 'how to fight from your back' because most of us non-BJJ people are already familiar with top position. People 99% always turn to BJJ when they got a question regarding how to fight from the guard.

I'm not sure if this is true, but I've heard that many bjj places teach fighting from the guard so often, students almost view the guard as the most 'safe' and viable technique for grappling. Maybe that's why people like 'pulling guard'?

In my personal experience;
BJJ People pull guard. All the time. Period. /sarcasm

~Donnie out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#420153 - 06/20/09 10:13 AM Re: Differences in JKD [Re: Taison]
JKogas Offline
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Its been the opposite with me, where the top was always emphasized. But of course, takedowns were always emphasized as well which typically leaves you in the top position.

The guard was always considered to be the worst-case scenario, which is why it was always given a lot of time. You have to work on those worst case scenarios a lot so that you can be as good as possible with them. We all think that way for the most part, or we'd not be practicing martial arts for self-defense.

I think another reason why guard play happens so much is because in tournament play, it's just easier for people who don't have takedown skills. In some circles, the thought that pulling guard is easier than fighting for the takedown exists, but that's not everywhere.

But even if you watch two wrestlers (implying takedown skills here) grappling for submission, one of them WILL end up in the guard on his back.

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#420154 - 06/20/09 10:34 AM Re: Differences in JKD [Re: JKogas]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

But even if you watch two wrestlers (implying takedown skills here) grappling for submission, one of them WILL end up in the guard on his back.




Another great point, John. Unless the takedown was stuffed, there is a 50% chance of ending up on your back, like it or not - mathematical certainty. That's why there is so much guard work in BJJ.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#420155 - 06/20/09 02:14 PM Re: Differences in JKD [Re: MattJ]
Spade Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 255
Loc: Auburn, Al.
I don't have a wrestling backround, If I know someone can take me down, I'm just ready to pull guard and work from there.

I'm also not a very big guy, and I'm not too worried about getting attacked by someone smaller than me, If I have a big guy ontop of me, thats when I really need to know my stuff.
_________________________
"always paddle your own canoe." - Cord

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#420156 - 06/20/09 03:05 PM Re: Differences in JKD [Re: Spade]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Spade makes a good point. If you're smaller, you will need to understand the bottom and guard games, unless you are just vastly more skilled with takedowns. Again, when everything is equal, size matters.

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