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#426835 - 05/02/10 04:19 AM Re: The "Classical Mess" [Re: JKogas]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
HAHAHA.

I agree on that one.

-Donnie
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#426845 - 05/02/10 05:58 AM Re: The "Classical Mess" [Re: MattJ]
TeK9 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 2257
Loc: Northern California, USA
By: Paul Vunak

Where does original JKD fit in?

When we say original JKD we are referring to the combined curriculum's of the Seattle, Oakland and LA Chinatown schools prior to Bruce Lee's death. We strongly believe that the original curriculum should be preserved and immortalized. In order to assure this for the past 25 years we have made it mandatory for all Phase 1 students to know the entire curriculum of original JKD. When I hear people asking which is better? Comparing original jkd to contemporary jkd(which is commonly called JKD concepts) I have to smile and scratch my head. You see, original JKD is contained within contemporary JKD. It would be like asking which is better, a Jab or Boxing? Since a Jab is contained within boxing, the question is moot. Another reason against comparing the two has to do with fairness to Bruce Lee. In order to even be competitive now a days, there are some simple pre-requisites one absolutely must have...

A clinch Game(Either the neck or the body)
Take down defense,
A Ground game.

The reason that none of these elements are in original JKD. Is because they didn't even exist prior to the first UFC which was 20 years after Bruce Lee's death.
_________________________
"Poor is the pupil who
does not surpass his
master" - Leonardo Da
Vinci

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#426993 - 05/06/10 08:05 AM Re: The "Classical Mess" [Re: TeK9]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Paul Vunak is the first person that is able to answer the question without causing a rift between the two 'faction'. If only the TKD people could learn the same thing.

To be honest, that's how I view my 'style' when people ask. "What's stronger? MT or Judo?' my answer has always been 'why are you trying which one taste better, bread or butter?'

-Donnie out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#427087 - 05/11/10 02:49 AM Re: The "Classical Mess" [Re: ShikataGaNai]
matt_mcg Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 113
Originally Posted By: ShikataGaNai
[quote]
As for the JFJKD kick link - I think (but don't exactly know) that the particular sidekick made so popular by Lee is a modified WC sidekick. The chambering, leaning back and hip motion came from who-knows-where, but the heel thrust and footwork are exactly like the WC version when it's used with footwork or when closing the distance. You can even cross-step to cover more ground (sure you all know that).


That kick looks exactly like a chasse lateral median from savate. The chambering, the body position, the mechanics of the kick, all of it. So I assume [given Tao of JKD, etc.] that savate is a possible or even probable source for the kick. Although savate footwork doesn't tend to involve that sort of footwork as much [although cross steps and 'skips' are used sometimes to close distance quickly].

But as you say, who knows, there's a lot of technique convergence across styles.

Matt

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#427122 - 05/11/10 11:03 PM Re: The "Classical Mess" [Re: matt_mcg]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Bruce did take a LOT from Savate.

Coup de pied with rear leg, Chasse lateral bas, Chasse lateral and Chasse Frontal.

Note that Bruce MAY have had TKD influence in his films from that korean guy, Jhoon Rhee I think his name was. But I'm not sure.

Lee said he did not like 'high kicks'. However, he used a lot of 'thrusting' kicks employed in Savate.

-Donnie out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#430051 - 09/20/10 08:27 AM Re: The "Classical Mess" [Re: Ames]
trexeden@yahoo.c Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 4
Great question my man. This talk could go on and on. Iíve been interviewing JKD instructors from across the spectrum for a while now, here is what they have to say, you can check it out for no charge: http://www.JKDnewsletter.com

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#430057 - 09/20/10 03:17 PM Re: The "Classical Mess" [Re: trexeden@yahoo.c]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
Old thread and I don't know where Bruce Lee took his influence from officially.

What I can tell you is he spent a lot of time with Ed Parker and training with his students. Not formally as a AKK guy but fighting and discussing philosophy and taking it too the mat.

He also worked with Gene LeBell on set and off, so I'd be hard pressed to believe he didn't tap that resource when he was around him as much as he was.

I've heard the old timers tell a few stories. I won't repeat them because stories tend to take on a life of their own depending on who the tellers are, but they are interesting in their own right.

I will say the common thread seems to be that LeBell was not a guy to messed with, not ground breaking I know, but the stories are still funny.
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#430069 - 09/21/10 12:08 PM Re: The "Classical Mess" [Re: Kimo2007]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
I heard that Lebell threw Lee into (as in 'inside') a garbage can! Don't know how true it is, but still funny.

My favorite is the story of him and Seagal.

--Chris
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#430071 - 09/21/10 03:47 PM Re: The "Classical Mess" [Re: Ames]
Kimo2007 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/07
Posts: 1057
See how those stories evolve, I heard he picked him up and Lee was yelling "put me down!"

Apparently he was being a pain in the a$$ onset and LeBell had enough.

Another story, when Lee was young, Parker told his guys to leave him alone because he was shopping the actor around to his Hollywood buddies. Lee might not have been the best MA in the world but he looked amazing on film, and his form was a thing of beauty.

Well, one night Lee and a guy who's name I won't mention because I got the story second hand (I'm not old like some of these geezers) anyway they got into a debate about fighting and it lead to some sparring and this guy gave it to BL pretty good.

Well the old man (as Parker was known) was livid, not sure what he did to the guy but that was the last time BL got man handled.

Don't get me wrong, he was still young he had just mouthed off to wrong guy and back in the day those guys pounded. BL was respected in the MA community even then though I doubt revered as the "best". Prettiest maybe, but hardly the best.

Again, the old stories from these guys are cool to hear even if you have to take them with a grain of salt as the years blur the details.

I will say I met a guy a long time ago who trained with Bill Wallace. He said he fought him in a tournament blah blah. He said yea, Bill kicked me in the head before I even knew we had started, but I held my own. Years later on a lark, I looked him up, and what do you know but I found him on a tournament results page. Bill Wallace First Place and Him in second...SOB was telling the truth!
_________________________
Undefeated in all of Asia!

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#430498 - 10/17/10 01:14 PM Re: The "Classical Mess" [Re: Ames]
trexeden@yahoo.c Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 4
It is a challenge. Iíve interviewed some pretty high up JKD instructors. You can check out my interviews with them at http://www.JKDnewsletter.com

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