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#419687 - 06/07/09 02:52 PM Re: 'Drag Me To Hell' [Re: rideonlythelabel]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

I was not aware that there was a sacred laughs to scares ratio that had to be respected.




In a horror movie, I would definately say that there is. Evil Dead 1 was a watershed moment in Horror movies. It was, at the time, considered the most hardcore horror movie ever made, and was not released uncensored in the UK for over twenty years (the tree rape scene was banned by the BBFC).

Evil Dead 2 was Raimi's second shot at telling the same story as in 1. It is, effectively a remake, in which he lightened the tone, having decided that number 1 was too humourless, indeed, he has gone on record as saying, in retrospect, that he regretted filming the tree-rape scene, and preferred the UK cut of his movie.

ED 2 got the balance right IMO, though to this day, there are fans out there that consider it a 'sell out' of the original movie.

Army of Darkness is just too diluted. As a stand alone movie, its great, and I do love it, but as a page in the 'Evil dead' story, its a poor show, and is badly missing the horror the series is synonamous with.

Quote:

I guess we are comparing apples and oranges here, because we are comparing funny vs scary, but what it boils down to is this; would I rather watch AOD or DMTH? Army of darkness by a country mile. Also, Bruce Campbell is my light and my salvation.




If humour and Bruce Campbell are priorities, then you should seek out Bubba Ho-Tep, which is both funnier, and draws a better performance from the mighty Bruce. It is a moment of cinematic genius.

Quote:

On a related note; I saw the new Star Trek and I was thoroughly underwhelmed.




Have yet to see it, but you are the I have talked to not to be blown away by it. Doesnt make you wrong- I think Dark Knight is about the most turgid movie I have seen since Troll 2.

Its all just opinion
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#419688 - 06/08/09 10:05 PM Re: 'Drag Me To Hell' [Re: Cord]
rideonlythelabel Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1242
Loc: st-hubert quebec canada
Quote:

In a horror movie, I would definately say that there is.




Army of Darkness wasn't a horror movie.

Quote:

As a stand alone movie, its great,




Ah, here is the difference between us. IMO, every movie should be considered as a stand alone movie.

Quote:

If humour and Bruce Campbell are priorities, then you should seek out Bubba Ho-Tep, which is both funnier, and draws a better performance from the mighty Bruce. It is a moment of cinematic genius.




I shall.

Quote:

Have yet to see it, but you are the I have talked to not to be blown away by it.




The action was good, but there were too many plot holes for even my considerable willful suspension of disbelief abilities.

Quote:

I think Dark Knight is about the most turgid movie I have seen since Troll 2.





IMO, Dark Knight was worse than bad; it was average. A forgettable movie that would and should have been forgotten had it not been part of the Batman franchise and had Heath not assumed room temperature.
_________________________
patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.

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#419689 - 06/09/09 04:37 AM Re: 'Drag Me To Hell' [Re: rideonlythelabel]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Quote:

In a horror movie, I would definately say that there is.




Army of Darkness wasn't a horror movie.




Exactly my point.

Quote:

Quote:

As a stand alone movie, its great,




Ah, here is the difference between us. IMO, every movie should be considered as a stand alone movie.




Really!? So you could get complete immersion and understand every nuance of character interaction/plot development, in say, The godfather Part II, with no knowledge whatsoever of the first movie? What about Empire or Jedi? Alien Resurrection? Return of the King?

If a film is a chapter in a continuing story, then it should expect to be judged by the chapters that led to its existence. Army of Darkness is the 3rd in a series of horror movies, but fails to offer any horror.
If they made a Harry Potter movie, where all the gang had moved to New York, and drank in 'Central Perk', and were given brilliant witty dialogue, but never once used any magic, whilst it may be a well made film, it would be a harry potter fan's right to view it as a failure in context with what one wants from a HP story.

Evil Dead = Ash + zombies + chainsaws + Gore + big 'jump' moments + quotable one-liners.

Army of Darkness = Ash + quotable one liners.

Big bits of the equation are missing.

Big
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Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
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#419690 - 06/09/09 12:39 PM Re: 'Drag Me To Hell' [Re: Cord]
rideonlythelabel Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1242
Loc: st-hubert quebec canada
Quote:

Really!? So you could get complete immersion and understand every nuance of character interaction/plot development, in say, The godfather Part II, with no knowledge whatsoever of the first movie? What about Empire or Jedi? Alien Resurrection? Return of the King?




Oh, you're right. What I meant is that movies should be judged by their individuals merits. A movie is not made worse by the fact that is fails to live up to previous elements of a sequel; it should stand on it's own.

What I was trying to say is that DMTH is not better than AOD because AOD isn't as good as Evil Dead 2. AOD is either better or worse than DMTH, regardless of how good Evil Dead 2 was.

Of course, our judgements are tainted by whether we're impressed or not with a movie, which is linked to our expectations. I probably would have enjoyed Star Trek more had everybody shut up about how it was more awesome than a robot caveman punching God in the d--k.
_________________________
patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.

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#419691 - 06/09/09 01:23 PM Re: 'Drag Me To Hell' [Re: rideonlythelabel]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

A movie is not made worse by the fact that is fails to live up to previous elements of a sequel; it should stand on it's own.




But if its a continuation of a story, then its impossible not to. Imagine reading an awesome novel, great narrative, pacing, engaging characters- you are enthralled. Then the author completely botches the ending, doesn't tie up the plot threads, introduces inconsistencies and contradictions. It would spoil the book. Its the same with multi-film stories.

Quote:

What I was trying to say is that DMTH is not better than AOD because AOD isn't as good as Evil Dead 2. AOD is either better or worse than DMTH, regardless of how good Evil Dead 2 was.




I see your logic, but the argument doesn't work when dealing with a director as individual as Sam Raimi. There are certain quintessential things that a Raimi fan looks for in his work. Now, his individual style never translated to the Spiderman movies (contrast them with his other superhero work 'Darkman'- they have a totally different feel and tone), and many of his fans feared that he had been tamed by the hollywood machine. After all, AOD, Darkman, and Quick and the Dead, all recieved studio backing and mainstream releases, and all bombed, then he gets Spidey, plays it conservative and he is controlling a multi-billion dollar franchise.

I never thought I would see Raimi make another 'Raimi' movie, but DMTH is just that! Its like he never went away, and further more, the very things that made him his fanbase, are all presented with more invention and in better balance in DMTH, than he managed in AOD, when judged by his own standards and artistic predilictions

Remember, I do love Army of Darkness, its a great excuse to let Ash off the leash and have some fun, but part of the joy of Ash is his 'everyman pushed to the limit' persona. By playing it purely for laughs in AOD, they managed to make him some sort of pastiche of what he was in ED 2 (in the timeline of the films, its only been less than 2 weeks since he got sucked into the past, so he would not be as unaffected by the undead as they made him).

Drag me to hell is simply better made, better thought out, and more 'Raimi-ish' movie.
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