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#419402 - 05/20/09 07:35 AM Age limit for boxing
KompressorX Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/17/09
Posts: 16
Hi,

How old is too old to fight in the ring and why?

Would this age be the same for professional and amateur boxers?

I know a few guys who are still very fit and fast and in their sixties. What's stopping them?

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#419403 - 05/20/09 08:01 AM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: KompressorX]
TheCrab Offline
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Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 467
Loc: QLD Australia
Quote:

I know a few guys who are still very fit and fast and in their sixties. What's stopping them?




naturally, your fitness goes down from around 35 onwards, your just not in your prime and your not getting any stronger or better.

Quote:

I know a few guys who are still very fit and fast and in their sixties. What's stopping them?




Theres a whole lot of issues. Bone calcification, wear and tear on the body, etc
Old fellas can still jog, play most sports no worries, but something like boxing, you against someone trying to smash you is a no no.

Competition wise noone wants a fighter that might get damaged and become a liability. but most of the time they just arent up for it

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#419404 - 05/20/09 08:19 AM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: TheCrab]
Taison Offline
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Registered: 09/06/05
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Loc: BKK, Thailand
The age of 28, is considered many to be the best 'prime'. I say I'm agreeing to an extent.

I'm only getting stronger and better with each day.

However, when you start to hit your mid 30's like Lachlan just said, then yes, the damages will catch up. You're not going to heal everything you go through.

As for pro boxing~ I'm not sure, look at Foreman.

~Donnie out
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#419405 - 05/20/09 09:22 AM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: KompressorX]
MattJ Offline
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Quote:

How old is too old to fight in the ring and why?




Crab and Taison have answered this well, IMHO.

Quote:

I know a few guys who are still very fit and fast and in their sixties. What's stopping them?




The ability to recover becomes compromised as you get over the age of 35 or so. You can still get in the mix, but injuries occur quicker and take longer to heal.
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#419406 - 05/20/09 09:45 AM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: KompressorX]
Neko456 Offline
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Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Pending what type of competition usually early 40s your reflexes start to fade you can see opening but can't respond fast enough to evade or enter the incident. Some of the journeman boxers can train until late sixty but they usually are just using it to stay fit. If you just plan to box around the gym and wear the headgear and large gloves you could train until late 50s or 60s.

But at a Pro level Foreman is the acception he actually boxed better when he was older and retained that looping KO power brining him a belt at nearly 50 but against faster boxers he didn't fair well. Your power is the last thing to leave you as a puncher.

The question comes up are we becoming weaker human as beings? Recently two died from injuries subcumbed in the ring in 6-12 round fighst. In Boxing hay day the limit was 15 rounds and in it time of yore, some fighter fought 60-75 rounds could imagine such a thing. Just thinking about makes me want to say oh hell I had brain fart. What did (one of my idols) Roberto Duran say in the 2nd Lenoard fight? "No mano" whatever the same as F^&k it man.


See why you gotta stop taking head shots when u get older.


Edited by Neko456 (05/20/09 09:46 AM)
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#419407 - 05/20/09 09:51 AM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: Neko456]
TheCrab Offline
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Posts: 467
Loc: QLD Australia
foreman definitely did not box better when he was older. he was a hell of a lot slower and more sluggish. KO power was size derived.

His prime (ali fight) his workload was higher, he was fitter stronger and faster. hes actually a prime example of what I was saying about aging

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#419408 - 05/20/09 10:08 AM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: TheCrab]
Neko456 Offline
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Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Crab if you listen to George Foreman he would tell you he boxed smarter and better when he was older,as a Young man his defense had hughe gaps in it. What made him awesome as a young man was his vicious powerful offense.

But if you remember his fight against hard hitting slugger Gerry Coney in his young age it might have been a pickem fight whoever hit the other 1st odds still in favor of Foreman bc of his speed. But as a older fighter he dismantled Cooney with a clever defense and shorter heavy punches.

Despite what you feel George has said he was a smarter better boxer the 2nd time around, I agree.

You may have a point he was a better slugger when young. Butr technique wise there is no question he got better.
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#419409 - 05/20/09 10:17 AM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: Neko456]
TheCrab Offline
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Loc: QLD Australia
thats a sound point, but I was talking physically. He was a far better athlete when he was younger. Theres no age limit to mental growth

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#419410 - 05/20/09 10:38 AM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: TheCrab]
Neko456 Offline
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Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Granted but we all can say that younger we were better physically stronger, recovered faster and everything.

Those were the days my friend, I thought they'd never end; point well taken, sigh.


Edited by Neko456 (05/20/09 10:39 AM)
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#419411 - 05/20/09 10:50 AM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: Neko456]
TheCrab Offline
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Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 467
Loc: QLD Australia
hey if it makes you feel any better im only 18 and all my joints are completely screwed haha

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#419412 - 05/20/09 04:40 PM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: KompressorX]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2573
Quote:

Hi,

How old is too old to fight in the ring and why?

Would this age be the same for professional and amateur boxers?

I know a few guys who are still very fit and fast and in their sixties. What's stopping them?




Ok a couple of things here....

Dusting off my old AIBA rule book, you can not compete as an amateur boxer past the age of 34. I can't see any reason why you can't train at a gym though due to your age. Many people who attend boxing gyms attend just for the workout. AIBAs rules. They consult medical professionals before making these decisions, so there will be some reasoning to it but I can't tell you what it is.

Rule 1.1

http://www.aiba.org/documents/site1/Arti...2030%202008.pdf



Boxers towards the end of the 19th century many fights lasted between 2-3 hours. Many of these bouts were BARE KNUCKLE though. This meant there was little contact to the head. Boxers would hit each other in the body until one of them got injured or exhausted. Then they introduced these little things called gloves and everything changed...


Personally it has nothing to do with being "regular fit" e.g. having good cardio, strong heart rate etc... It has got to do with being "fighting fit" e.g. the ability to process what is happening and react to it, the ability to absorb punishment etc...

Looking good on a punch bag is one thing. Pulling it off in a ring is a very different thing though. Do you mean thes guys in their 60's you refer to look good in sparring?


Edited by Prizewriter (05/20/09 04:41 PM)
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#419413 - 05/20/09 04:55 PM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: Prizewriter]
Zach_Zinn Offline
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Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
The answer to this is really simple, the function of your fast twitch muscle decreases as you age, as does your reaction time.

BTW this is fact, not my opinion..there are exceptions to the rule, and of course there can be alot of variation but the bottom line is that in terms of raw attributes it will go downhill for most people roughly from the age of 25-30, and continue from there.

Of course a 40 year old who trains better can be faster than a 20 year old who trains poorly no question, just that physically the cards are not stacked in favor of the 40 year old.

Obviously you can't do anything at 35 or 40 like you could at 20, you can do whatever you want, but chances are you will be doing it differently.


Edited by Zach_Zinn (05/20/09 04:57 PM)

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#419414 - 05/20/09 10:07 PM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: Zach_Zinn]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

it will go downhill for most people roughly from the age of 25-30,




Like I mentioned earlier, I think that the age of 25-30 is the prime. After 30 though, then it goes downhill.

~Donnie out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#419415 - 05/21/09 12:42 AM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: Taison]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Quote:

Quote:

it will go downhill for most people roughly from the age of 25-30,




Like I mentioned earlier, I think that the age of 25-30 is the prime. After 30 though, then it goes downhill.

~Donnie out




This may be true in terms of skills, but it is not true in terms of raw physical fitness:

http://www.bma.org.uk/health_promotion_ethics/health_ageing/HealthAgeing.jsp?page=32

In terms of raw strength, reaction time, etc. the magic age for "downhill" is 25, believe it or not.

It might be that age 25-30 people are simply better at certain things, have learned to be more efficient, what have you.

However a 25 or 26 year old is now in a period of decreasing strength, although it might be minor, particularly in someone of high physical fitness like an athlete.


Edited by Zach_Zinn (05/21/09 12:43 AM)

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#419416 - 05/21/09 07:37 AM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: Zach_Zinn]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

This may be true in terms of skills, but it is not true in terms of raw physical fitness:

http://www.bma.org.uk/health_promotion_ethics/health_ageing/HealthAgeing.jsp?page=32




I don't believe that at all. Many of the world's top power lifters are older than 25. I don't think you can meaningfully separate pure strength from the coordination required to use it. That link seems to be very short on detail, IMHO.
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#419417 - 05/21/09 01:10 PM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: MattJ]
Zach_Zinn Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Lol, what is it with you guys? I provide a link from a credible healthcare authority, and you still just "don't believe me"? It's not a question of my own opinion here.

I guess if you don't like the link you can take it up with the British Medical Association lol, hell next time your at your doctor ask them if you want a more nuanced view of what i'm talking about...muscle bulk starts declining at 25, it's not news!

You don't have to believe if you don't want, but it's fact that for most the ages of 25-26 is where the body begins to decline.

As mentioned previously, the reasons someone might be good at something farther into heir lives are varied, but it doesn't change what happens in terms of raw physical attributes.

If you don't wanna believe it then don't argue with me, go take an AP&P class and argue with your teacher about it, try to convince them that because you've seen some athletes do better from those ages that muscle etc. no longer starts declining at 25.

Again..this is not controversial knowledge at all, it's pretty standard view.


Edited by Zach_Zinn (05/21/09 01:14 PM)

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#419418 - 05/21/09 01:45 PM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: Zach_Zinn]
MattJ Offline
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Zach, don't have a hissy-fit. Can I disagree with you without you having a tantrum? Geez.

My opinion stands, although I will qualify it by saying that I am talking about people that train physical culture - martial arts and weight-lifting.

I suppose that link would be accurate for couch-potatoes that do nothing.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#419419 - 05/21/09 06:52 PM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: MattJ]
Zach_Zinn Offline
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Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
You wouldn't be disagreeing with me Matt, you'd be disagreeing with prevalent medical opinion and ideas, it's not my concept. Anyway not i'm throwing a hissy fit, I just don't understand why this concept is so controversial, even when I provide a very credible link to a medical source saying the same thing.

I'm not offended or throwing a fit dude, I just think you guys need to seperate biological fact as we know it from trends in sports.

Fast twich muscle starts to decrease around age 25, they will tell you this in any basic ap&p class, unless something has changed and new research shows otherwise.

If you stay in tip top shape alot of that may not matter, but still with all other things being equal, someone that's 18 can do the same amount of strength training as someone who is 27 and generally the 18 year old will see more of a benefit.

As far as whether it applies to athletes, of course it still does. My guess is that by a certain age plenty of athletes are seasoned enough that what they are doing is no longer totally dependent on raw strength, in power lifting for example, obviously use of leverage and form means something as well.

So power lifters being better, or George Foreman or Randy Couture being able to fight well later in life doesn't disprove the concept, it simply means some people are exceptional, and that there is more involved in "being good" than fast twitch muscles.

If athletes are better after age 25, it isn't because this is "prime time". In a purely physical sense it simply isn't, Your body is capable of more in terms of strength, endurance, reaction time, prior to this period than it is after, which means whatever is making 25-30 year olds out perform others isn't just a preponderance of fast twitch muscle.


Edited by Zach_Zinn (05/21/09 06:56 PM)

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#419420 - 05/21/09 09:00 PM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: Zach_Zinn]
MattJ Offline
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I still disagree, Zach. You can't just look at the physical attributes in isolation like that. And I'm not debating that those atrributes get worse as you get older. I'm arguing that the synergy/coordination effect MORE than makes up for it. So, 25-30 can indeed be prime time for many athletes, because they have the know-how to coordinate much better the attributes they possess - even if they are technically in "decline".

I feel that you are arguing an isolated medical point that does not reflect the reality for people invested in physical culture (remember that the thread is about boxers, not couch potatoes).

Maybe we are seeing this from different perspectives.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#419421 - 05/21/09 09:24 PM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: MattJ]
Taison Offline
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Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
I agree with Matt here, sorry Zach.

Sure, you might start losing some of those 'fast twitch muscle', but as an athlete (note; not couch potatoes), even if you had those extra muscles, they wouldn't be of much use until you're able to fully co-ordinate them, which sadly, happens at around 25-30 range.

Quote:

I'm arguing that the synergy/coordination effect MORE than makes up for it.




~Donnie out
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#419422 - 05/21/09 10:07 PM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: Taison]
Zach_Zinn Offline
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Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Like I said guys, I buy completely that ages 25-30 are where people often get better, it's been my experience as well.

My only argument is that it is not a result of increasing levels of physical fitness, but skills which are less dependent on that physical fitness, i.e. a fighter that has learned finesse, structure, form, has a deep grasp of the strategy of what he is doing etc. and can be more efficient than someone younger who often times is relying more on "brute force".

Yes what I am saying in an isolated medical point, but it's something quite relevant, if you try to fight at 30 like you did at 18, in general you will fail.

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#419423 - 05/21/09 10:14 PM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: Taison]
TheCrab Offline
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Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 467
Loc: QLD Australia
Im with zac myself.

Basically all physical attributes are on a decline from that age, and if your constantly at your physical peak, your going to go downhill.

everyone makes a good point, but in effect most people have the advantage at a younger age. If you disagree, just look at any competitive sport. sprinters, swimmers, billy goat wrestlers, whatever the sport, it is mostly dominated by younger folks.
Boxing, look at Ali or Frazier, Roy, anyone. they all got old

As mattj said, of course there are exceptions, where mentally someones skill evolves and actually improves them, but 99% of the time it doesnt happen.

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#419424 - 05/23/09 06:05 AM Re: Age limit for boxing [Re: TheCrab]
Cord Offline
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Zach is 'technicaly' correct, in regards to the isolated physiology in question.

However, as physical performance is reliant on so many other variables, this nugget of truth should not, in any shape or form, be used as a basis for defining a persons physical potential.

Look at that, an argument where everybody is right. Bring on the peace and love. Or I will shoot you.


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