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#419213 - 05/13/09 11:37 AM Old ways out and New ways in teaching methods..
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Old ways out and New ways in teaching methods.

As some of you may know my Tang soo do Instructor wants to train Goju-ryu in our 1st two sessions we are working on the Kata Tensho which is an soft and hard non dynamic form used to develop breathing principles and flowing body movements. My purpose for doing this is for him to develop supple movement giving him the brest of how this system moves. He has studied Praying Mantis (but he still moves TSD to me) in any event he faults himself for not knowing as I explained "don't push your self too fast, things are a little differnt". He also brings up little differences in what he has sen in other Goju/Japanese system and what I was taught or teaching. I explain that does not matter as long as the technique is understood.

He also commented that he wanted me to train him as hard as he trained me. And here where the title comes from as i told him I don't teach like that anymore and that I was 15-16 years old learning TSD, he is 62 years old its not required to go through that to learn.

I mean standing in the sun on 90 degree tempertures or in the snow 35 degress in horse stance are things that teenagers do because they don't know and because there were no where else to train. Almost how a 32 yr. old Marine told me why the young infantry are asked to charge Machine gun nest because they don't know. that artillery could be called in and then they pick up the pieces.

Anyway the New way we train some of the old ways are discarded because a lot of USA Instructors that trained overseas they didn't want them there or thought they were soft and was trying to break them. It time to do away with old training that doesn't produce results.

Another thing I'm finding it's difficult to teach a past teacher, too much time reflecting on what was instead of what is. At 62 he is not ever going to train as if we were 20 again. What I want is for him to slowing ingrain himslef in the movement and then we will break down the difference in technique which is not much mostly flowing instead of tension all the time.

Any comments or past experience in either position is welcome,


Edited by Neko456 (05/13/09 11:43 AM)
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#419214 - 05/14/09 08:37 AM Re: Old ways out and New ways in teaching methods.. [Re: Neko456]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
You have a lot of good points. Just commenting on training purpose and age, since your styles are not familiar to me- one needs to change the way one trains as one gets older. I'm 60 and this year I'm having real problems with osteoarthritis in my knees. Age matters.

Also purpose matters. It is important to know what a person's objectives are. I was training a man 20 yrs my junior. He didn't want to know a lot of technique unless he was really doing something very wrong. He just wanted a good aerobics workout and he liked to spar. Fine. I sparred with him just staying a little ahead of him and kept checking to make sure he was alright since he couldn't keep up with me. When he needed to slow down, I gave him some basics and then kept checking to make sure he was getting the aerobic work-out he wanted and that his technique was improving a little.

This is a common theme with adult learners which is different from teaching children. Adults, especially in private instruction, generally know what they want.
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The older I get, the better I was!

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#419215 - 05/14/09 12:39 PM Re: Old ways out and New ways in teaching methods.. [Re: underdog]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
UnderDog wrote - You have a lot of good points. Just commenting on training purpose and age, since your styles are not familiar to me- one needs to change the way one trains as one gets older. I'm 60 and this year I'm having real problems with osteoarthritis in my knees. Age matters.


456 - What he wants is to be able to help teach the same system i will teaching at this new learning Academy rather then teach two different systems we can teach one. Now I know Tang soo do he was my TSD instructor when I was 15-16 yrs old I'm now approaching 50 and he is 62 a 6th Dan TSD. So though we will workout and spar it will be trying to merge what we know into a more effiecent package. TSD is longer range fast dynamic style with high multiple flying an spining kicks, all type but basic hands and hard striking blocks. Goju is a system that stresses short range explosive power with minimum energy used in soft blocking and maximum but effiecent energy in striking. I find it more applicable then my TSD training especially in this stage of my life. I hope that he does too, but we will see.

Go get em Girl, whipping upp on and outlasting a 40 yr.old. You are a tough Grand Ma! I'm a Grand Pa too!
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#420396 - 06/26/09 03:52 AM Re: Old ways out and New ways in teaching methods.. [Re: Neko456]
GriffyGriff Offline
Good Egg,
Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 414
Loc: Earth
A New Training method that I adopt and seems to be working well is to get a Metronome and set it going on just 2 beats. The effect so far has upped the training speed when students are paired together as they naturally fall into the beat. I also use it to emphasise hitting on half-beats.
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I am NOT homophobic... I am NOT afraid of my own house!

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#421735 - 08/19/09 05:04 PM Re: Old ways out and New ways in teaching methods.. [Re: Neko456]
kakushiite Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/03
Posts: 266
Loc: Ithaca, NY, USA
When you train under someone, in their school, your options are limited. You pretty much need to do what they do.

I have the good fortune of having my own school, and a teacher who likes when his students experiment. That is how the art progresses.

What I teach has changed over the years. I am constantly trying to find the right mix of techniques, kata, drills, bagwork, stretching, conditioning, weapons, etc.

I expect to continue on that path of change. I used to be very traditional, and although I keep kata at the core of how I teach and train, the self-defense has more Muay Thai and boxing concepts, since I have come to recognize their value.

Many of us try to continue to learn new concepts throughout our lives, and if we are to teach them, we need to give up other things we taught it the past. Sometimes it's a tough tradeoff, but that is how the art develops.

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#421762 - 08/20/09 12:52 PM Re: Old ways out and New ways in teaching methods.. [Re: kakushiite]
Ronin1966 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 04/26/02
Posts: 3113
Loc: East Coast, United States
Hello kakushiite:

Myself, I train WITH people, not under them crazy but perhaps that is semantics... perhaps?

The presentation is meaningful! Haphazard, random and the information is rarely understood deeply, much less studied for the time required to truly understand more than the surface(s).

The art and the practice can be very different things. (personal study vs. teaching) If the art is to remain in tact, and be passed on whole, a depth of consistant study is mendatory.

If we switch the kata like socks.... cry the art will start to smell....

Merely my opinion, for whateverit might be worth,

Jeff

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#421784 - 08/21/09 04:26 PM Re: Old ways out and New ways in teaching methods.. [Re: Ronin1966]
kakushiite Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/03
Posts: 266
Loc: Ithaca, NY, USA
Semantics can depend on your experiences. I like to train with a number of people of different systems. But I only have one master that I train under.

My art (or arts) are much broader than what I can teach. My student only train in a few kata. I believe too many systems have too many. I have both the good and bad fortune to have chosen Shito Ryu to train in, since we are the worst of the bunch with 50 kata and lots of kobudo kata.

I like Funakoshi's statement that it was common in his day for an experienced karateka to only practice a few kata. Those were the days.

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#422027 - 08/31/09 10:15 PM Re: Old ways out and New ways in teaching methods.. [Re: Neko456]
Ed_Morris Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 6768
no past experience or insight as to your post...but I did want to comment that I think it's great to stand the traditional '1 teacher, 1 student' framework on it's head by sharing knowledge between those working out together.

cross-teaching like that leads to the epiphanies of knowledge that deepen the understanding of the art - or even if it only gives that illusion, it's much more satisfying than dogmatic repetition in later years of training. good for both of you.

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#422042 - 09/01/09 05:58 PM Re: Old ways out and New ways in teaching methods.. [Re: Ed_Morris]
shoshinkan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 2662
Loc: UK
Howdy Ed, good to see you back around, I will e-mail you.
_________________________
Jim Neeter

www.shoshinkanuk.blogspot.com

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#422091 - 09/03/09 12:36 PM Re: Old ways out and New ways in teaching methods.. [Re: shoshinkan]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Howdy, to both y'all Ed and Jim. smile I hope you are both doing well and my hat is also tipped to Necko for at least attempting to cross the aisle and not prop up himself or demean another when trying to train with others, including former instructors. smile

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