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#419192 - 06/01/09 02:53 PM Re: Slapping! [Re: Ames]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Quote:


Quote:

I remember reading a study a couple of years ago that said the neural response time on visual stimulus was on average 90ms and on tactile stimulus it was 30ms.





Interesting fact there. For a while now, I've been training grappling/ joint locking with either both me and my partner blindfolded, or just one of us. I have noticed that my 'reflexes' have gotten faster.

--Chris




I've always found the blindfolded stuff to be a bit of a novelty to be honest. Done it when I was younger, but couldn't say I'd use it now. I do get students to occasionally do push hands with their eyes closed so they can 'listen' properly with their sense of touch. Removing the visual input is a great way of letting them experience how much info they can get from touch but I think ultimately you need to use both. In tai chi we have specific methods using the eyes to actually increase the sensitivity of the body, drawing our gaze to certain points of the form, trying focus on the periphery visual area, using the eyes to 'track' a particular limb, etc. Another drill I used to when striking from the clinch was to try and land the shots with someone holding focus mitts or thai pads using the different senses. For example targeting via touch alone, targeting via peripheral vision and popping out of the clinch and not striking until I'd locked in on a target and messing around with all of them. All good training but probably a bit off topic now... sorry!
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#419193 - 06/01/09 09:00 PM Re: Slapping! [Re: Cord]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Quote:


I am still really not buying a 'wonder years' flashback as a tool to deal with an aggressor, however;





I should point out that the reaction isn't really a flashback type thing, it's more of a cognitive recognition or association, that take our attention momentarily, it may not even be a conscious thing, but it does cause a momentary period of inaction, on which you can act.

think of it as a mental flinch more then a an actual flashback.

we can only focus our attention on one thing at a time, when ever we are able to divert the attention of our opponent we have an opportunity, to attack. this is the same principle as asking a question prior to a pre-emptive strike, it engages the mind ( diverts attention to a thought) which provides a split second opportunity were they are most vulnerable.
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#419194 - 06/01/09 09:12 PM Re: Slapping! [Re: drgndrew]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
touch reflex is quicker then sight reflex, touch reflex is linked directly to the hind brain thus there is no cognitive thought involved in the reaction.

sight reflex travels through the higher level cognitive brain, there is a direct link to the hind brain (specifically the amygdala), this creates the initial startle/flinch response, but it then consults the memory and other higher order sytems to evaluate the stimulus. there is a lot of information provided by sight and the cognitive part of the brain has to sort out the appropriate match and response.

touch stimulus on the other hand does not contain that much information , there is really only hot, cold. pressure, and impact. the reaction is wired ( and can be learned hence chi sao) to the specific stimulus. you touch something hot and you quickly remove your hand with out thought, you feel pressure and you automatically either resist it or move with it depending on your wiring.

through balance into the equation and you have the simple , primarily unconscious and natural touch reflex based control.

but as mentioned this is OT
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

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#419195 - 06/02/09 01:09 AM Re: Slapping! [Re: drgndrew]
Gavin Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2267
Loc: Southend, Essex, UK
Sorry just to drag this even further...

Talking on the use of sight to trigger the startle reflex empowered through the sympathetic nervous system (fight or flight) you can use the peripheral vision to engage the parasympathetic nervous (rest and recuperation) and expand your perception so that it bypasses the 'startle response'. It requires a very big shift in our consciousness to move away from thinking in a 'bit to bit' disjointed fashion and develop our ability to think fluidly without being fixated and drawn to shiny objects which bring a fluid state of thinking to a complete standstill.

I've only had a quick look but I found this link:

http://www.practicaleq.com/peripheral.html

Learning to see 'panoramically' in combat greatly reduces the tunnel vision associated with adrenaline dumps by keeping us focused on the complete picture rather than having a attention drawn to specifics where we can be caught out.
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