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#418408 - 04/16/09 10:54 AM Media hype some watch too much TV thanks MMA.
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Media hype some watch too much TV thanks MMA. Last night my Mom called and stated that my baby brother a 6' 240lb recovering drunk living with my Mom going through forclosure and Divorce is threatening himself and her with a knife. Shouting that its over and he was going to kill himself. I'm 10 miles away I jump in my car arming myeself with my butterfly and snap on P11 9mm, I enter the house and do a bldg check of the kitchen and living room its quite I call out for my Mother she comes from the back room and points toward the bed room he is in.

Here is where the conflict starts my Mom fears for her safety so talk down is out, he is in bed I call his name he says leave him alone, I grab him by his ankles and pull him out of bed. His response is too get close and start a rebuttle (here is where the topic comes in) he obviously feels that he is cutting out my use of my legs as in the MMA episodes not realizing that at this range is where I do most my business. His approach is the push and punch which caused a respond of elbow, knees and sweep making things much easier then chasing him and setting him up at distance. After getting his attention we talked about his problems and how Mom is extending herself trying to help and not to threaten because life is not treating him well. He goes on to say that he is embarassed that as grown man he is staying with his Mom, lost his house and wife. I explained that he is just one of the 1.5 millon or more people that are in that situation but the only one now threatening and upsetting my Mom. We love kiss and hug and pleadge to stay family and I head home at 2:00am.

Who says there is no need to practice self defense tactics, know this when your sport career is over as long as you got an a$$ you may have to protect it and your family members. Nothing is promised not the presence not even tomorrow. But I note even drunks watch MMA, thanks MMA for putting them in range, even if this time it was my kid brother. Mom was threaten changes everything there is no walk away imho.

Suggestions and thoughts pro and negative I'm thick skinned. How would you have handled it?
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#418409 - 04/16/09 01:02 PM Re: Media hype some watch too much TV thanks MMA. [Re: Neko456]
karl314285 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 326
Loc: The Matrix, Serif is Teacher
Hi,

this was yesterday!!! maybe posting members become entangled (in the quantum physics sense). Different type of threat but to my Mom in a Tampa Nursing home skilled care unit, you shared so I will to, tho my response has left me embarrassed. Both events so similar in context to each other...

I'd like to take your post subject point that non-MA perceive MA on TV and draw wrong conclusions bout technique much to our benefit at times, and generalize it further to reflect the lesson I learned yesterday, cool?

First-mess with my mom in any fashion that effects or even potentially effects her mental or physical health is probably only one of maybe two ways to get me to purposefully enrage past a point very few have ever seen. Your reaction seems appropriate to the situation, tho a 1911 45cal, a fixed blade and my Asp would have been my choice

My reaction was stupid, embarrassing, might have bought me date with the local court IN RETROSPECT.
At the time it seemed a harmless action considering the surrounding circumstances...."seemed a harmless action"

The Martial Arts community is a small sub-culture, and the hard core MA community is a sub-culture in a small sub-culture....what is common or amusing banter to us can actually terrify or revolt most of the general public and so...
I believe that our general activities and potential outcomes of such, which we casually discuss, are enjoyed in the movies or on TV by the general public because they haven't been face to face with it in daily life and if that occurs, a misconception of the individual MA is typically negative due to fear.

So I thrust kicked a broken phone and casually walked away...and everyone coming towards me-walked away from me, fast. Bring up the topic of pros and cons of eye gouging with someone on an elevator, that'd be fun

OK I overreacted but truly all I did was kick a thick metal box that was broken already, I was not yelling or acting odd, just whistling as I walked to my truck. Auto-label by public...Scary Guy, I'm so sweet sugar asks for me when having coffee.

Lesson-when in public dont casually kick things or discuss arm breaks in their earshot...that stuff only happens on TV.

-Karl .Peace.
_________________________
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#418410 - 04/16/09 06:13 PM Re: Media hype some watch too much TV thanks MMA. [Re: karl314285]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
That was sorta over the top but each to their own I guess you made a point? What pi$$ed you off did I miss something?

Anyway I agree talking to yourself is never kousher especially if you talking about doing damage to body parts, some call that issuing threats.

In any event any incident you can walk or run away from is a good one. Like you in most situations I will avoid or ignore unless you threatening my Mom or love ones.

But they can call me names all day long.
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#418411 - 04/16/09 10:36 PM Re: Media hype some watch too much TV thanks MMA. [Re: Neko456]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
G'day Neko

I wasn't there so I didn't see the subtleties you did, but to me your description of the conflict (between you and your bro') seemed typical to an aggressive conflict, his reactions etc are text book aggressive behaviour; Close distance invading your personal space in an attempt to intimidate, assert their will/strength, push to make distance for the punch.etc

I don't know whether he actually was thinking MMA tactics during this, he was more likely just displaying an emotional response (posturing, out aggression etc).

This would be particularly more likely given the mans state of mind, he has tried other means to resolve "the problem" now he feels aggression is the only option this would soon be followed by physical violence (as demonstrated between you). obviously this is only a speculation, I hate to psychoanalyze others without being able to see the whole picture.

May I suggest you get your brother to a Psychologist, no I'm not implying he is a head case (he could be I don't know him), but he is having a typical reaction to a traumatic series of events, a natural reaction. a Psychologist will be able to help him "fight against it" as opposed to fight against everyone else. they can speed up the recovery process phenomenally and he will be able to get on with his life without digging a deeper rut. most psychologist actually do more work with normal healthy people during times when they need a bit of help. As opposed to the usual idea that they only treat head cases.

One question though, and this is purely out of curiosity, so please don't think I'm implying anything or making a judgment. I know how sensitive the gun possession thing can be for Americans, in Australia we have very strict ownership laws so it is foreign to us (me anyway) to think about taking along a 9 mm to an incident. It seems more natural for you guys, almost as if the same ass grabbing your keys & wallet as you head out. I what to emphasis that this is simply a cross cultural curiosity ( OK I think I have established no ill intend.)

The question
Why did you bring the firearm to an altercation with your brother (family). I imagine that shooting a family member would have been the last thing on your mind. did you take it because you thought you may have to resort to it (or just in case) or was it a natural thing to do. Did you have any plan for its use, either actual use or threat creation.

Again I'm, not arguing gun rights/control etc I generally don't care, I wouldn't carry even if I was allowed (I don't carry any weapon) but thats a choice of mine, as a result I just can't imagine taking a gun to an altercation with my brother, but I'm from a different culture. I was just curious as to your mind on it(no right or wrong judgment)

(Well thats an overkill on asking a simple question if I've ever seen one)
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
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#418412 - 04/16/09 10:55 PM Re: Media hype some watch too much TV thanks MMA. [Re: karl314285]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Hey Karl,

RE kicking the phone

Probably not the best course of action to take, But I can understand why you did it. The problem is the public display of violence, whether directed at anyone or inanimate objects, is not socially acceptable. In this sense you were wrong to kick the phone ( the action was wrong not your feelings)

Here's the thing, you may very well know that you will not do that to some innocent person (or even a slightly guilty person), but no-one else knows that. This occurred in a nursing home, imagine what the residents and the visitors would be thinking and feeling, they would have been [censored] scared is it fair to transfer that feeling on to innocent people some who are in the same position as your mum.

The management of the organisation have enough cause to ban you from entering the premises, and could even go as far as to taking out an restraining order to prevent you doing so. You don't want that, nor would your mum. this probably won't happen but it is a consequence of your action, you are also going to be labeled as a violent person by the staff.

I do understand mate, I'm similar when it comes to my Wife, my primal animal will take over when she is the centre of a threat. in a protective sense I'm happy with that but protecting my wife also involves protecting her from the consequences of my actions, as a result I have learned to keep that animal on a leash ( doesn't mean I wont let him roar at the fence line ) it'll still come out but control it not the other way around.

God help anyone who does something (or tries to) to my wife that warrants me letting him of the chain. I use awareness, prevention and preparation, so that it's unlikely it will ever happen.


Edited by drgndrew (04/16/09 10:57 PM)
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

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#418413 - 04/17/09 06:14 AM Re: Media hype some watch too much TV thanks MMA. [Re: drgndrew]
karl314285 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 326
Loc: The Matrix, Serif is Teacher
hey drgndrew,

yeah...when I got home I realized that my actions probably scared some people, and I mulled it over for a few hours and realized that for much of my life I've holed up w/ like minded MA, after class for a beer, a few girlfriends from MA (Oh, if your g'friend trys to kick you in the nads, fall on ground and pretend it hit, she'll love it and baby you...on the other hand a return roundhouse to her breasts will drop her and she wont go down again

I wanted to post the "kick the payphone" as a reminder to others like me where actions like that are common and even scored for style most of the planet has other friends to remind them "hey, NOT cool...you'll scare the neighbors"; but,

I am disgusted by prejudice I've begun to encounter concerning Martial Arts Practitioners, my very newest X-Chick had the amazing power to find even a soft-style form we have - "Lotus Form", internal and much like Tai Chi- "Disgusting" dont do that around me again, I began to say Art and was interrupted with the following...

ALL TAKE NOTE OF HOW SOME SEE MA BEFORE EVEN MEETING

SHE, only name I give her now, said that Ballet is Art not "That violent crap" (VERY soft, slow style form is violent), she went on to mention her sisters initial question about me (after loving Nuclear Medicine), her sister asked about hobbies...She mentioned Martial Arts and the FIRST question her sister asked (never having even met me) was "OH God, is He beating you, do we need get you out of this?"...I was stunned and now am not surprised to be told that only the WWII Italian Mother and Father are the only ones in the family who are not SCARED of me but liked me.

I probably wont kick Pay Phones again (Tho w/ my combat boots on it felt quite refreshing...UH sorry...I actually kicked the pay phone three times..bam-Bambam.. tho to my credit not as hard as I could have).

Next person to prejudge me as _____(a negative quality) is in for a shock...I plan to start sniffing then cry and fall on the ground hands on face crying about how lonely it is when people step on you without trying Bla Bla Bla...get up snifle and promise they will never see me again, turn around and walk off sobbing....NAH, I cant mess w/ peoples heads taint proper.

Legs dont kick Pay Phones, People kick Pay Phones...
The New Karl Act bans the use of legs with the exception of walking, jogging is a Federal Offense without a class III leg license and in some states this is not recognized. The Karl kicking phone coalition is currently in talks w/ those nations where the reckless and horrid act of free-running is still allowed, food and medicine embargo is to be set in action. New news...Karl Punches tree branch at FED MAX DETAINMENT...Public use of arms and hands to be limited by a properly seated congress to scratching and driving only.

-Karl. Peace.
_________________________
do not try to spork the post, for that is impossible, only realize there is no post to spork

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#418414 - 04/17/09 08:57 AM Re: Media hype some watch too much TV thanks MMA. [Re: Neko456]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Neko,

I'm a gun owner. I won't list what I have, but I have several. I may even have one on me in public if I deem it necessary. I may have a ccw, or not. nunya!

BUT, why on earth did you take the gun? What reason did you have to think you might have to shoot your brother?

My brother is older and bigger than me, but I know he is unarmed and if that ever happened (it wouldn't because he's more laid back than a narcoleptic turtle) I certainly wouldn't bring a gun into it. If he was threatening with a knife I would opt for a longer range weapon, but not a deadly weapon. Just curious.

I'm glad everything worked out. I hope your brother learns to cope and realize he is still a man of worth. Our circumstance does not determine our worth.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#418415 - 04/20/09 10:06 AM Re: Media hype some watch too much TV thanks MMA. [Re: drgndrew]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Drgdrew - Why did you bring the firearm to an altercation with your brother (family). I imagine that shooting a family member would have been the last thing on your mind. did you take it because you thought you may have to resort to it (or just in case) or was it a natural thing to do. Did you have any plan for its use, either actual use or threat creation.


Your comment is near the same as BiranS so your idea may not be based on cultural differences hut sure love care for another family member. My reason is to have protection yet not look like I'm coming in to start a war. I could have brought long weapons but they are hard to conceal and not much use for defending another person at range say in a hostage or he is already stabbing my Mom. Or he copmes out of back room raging with a knife a stick/club/PR24 or Chuka he may try to take on but a 9mm with me with a couch even a chair in front of me he would get sober and drop the knife I'd hope if not. My real plan is I'm going to help but I'm not going hoping that he won't try to take me with him as suicididal people boarder on insane, & one on drug and or alcohol maybe deraged my thought were better safe then sorry. I know my Martial art training don't make me invincible and I want everychance to come out alive. The most important is that my MA and other training makes me aware of the consequences of what can happen.

As I stated the P11 9mm and Butterfly knife are very concealable manner of fact they never saw them. But as I stated I entered the quite house with my hand on the P11 as if in a bldg search mode, calling out for my mother after clearing the 1st three rooms. As she came out of the back room all she could see was the corner of my eye until I came out. So my idea is better safe then sorry, rather then looking make shifting looking a weapon during ia conflict, I had weapons that I'm totally familar with. So I am there trying to help by not as a human sacrafice to the deranged or brotherhood.

Others have discussed just calling the Cops and having them take him for study. Mom didn't want this because of his past history with the police beaten and him in the news papaer for drug selling and resisiting arrest.

All and any other input would be appreciate I'm at a lost, Mom is getting frrustrated and want him to get help he is saying he does not need it. The rest of the family is trying to talk him into rehab.

My things is I want to help but I don't want to die trying. I've seen it happen 1ks of times. I might be selfish but I rather we cry for him.


Edited by Neko456 (04/20/09 10:18 AM)
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#418416 - 04/20/09 12:15 PM Re: Media hype some watch too much TV thanks MMA. [Re: Neko456]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Dredrew your idea of encouchment seem accurate and is a way some itimidate so you maybe right. Most these guys see them- selves as street boxers and like to dive in with strikes so his getting close probably took him out of his comfort zone. But right into mines, he got 20lbs on me but I', a little taller. So the MMA plan may not have been his purpose but it did look like he tried a high tackle but I pushed him aside and did what I did.

I think your past knowledge of events is accurate and has much merits. I've seen that too numerous time from people on teh other side of town.


Edited by Neko456 (04/20/09 12:17 PM)

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#418417 - 04/21/09 04:36 AM Re: Media hype some watch too much TV thanks MMA. [Re: Neko456]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:



Your comment is near the same as BiranS so your idea may not be based on cultural differences hut sure love care for another family member.




Actually, my friends call me Nairb.

Quote:

My reason is to have protection yet not look like I'm coming in to start a war. I could have brought long weapons but they are hard to conceal and not much use for defending another person at range say in a hostage or he is already stabbing my Mom.




If you really thought this then you should have called the cops, brither or not.

Quote:

Or he copmes out of back room raging with a knife a stick/club/PR24 or Chuka he may try to take on but a 9mm with me with a couch even a chair in front of me he would get sober and drop the knife I'd hope if not. My real plan is I'm going to help but I'm not going hoping that he won't try to take me with him as suicididal people boarder on insane, & one on drug and or alcohol maybe deraged my thought were better safe then sorry. I know my Martial art training don't make me invincible and I want everychance to come out alive. The most important is that my MA and other training makes me aware of the consequences of what can happen.




People don't sober up just because you point a gun at him. You introduced a gun into a situation where there was no gun outside of your own residence. You thought you might have to drive over there and use a gun, but you also thought calling the cops was a bad idea?

Quote:

As I stated the P11 9mm and Butterfly knife are very concealable manner of fact they never saw them. But as I stated I entered the quite house with my hand on the P11 as if in a bldg search mode, calling out for my mother after clearing the 1st three rooms. As she came out of the back room all she could see was the corner of my eye until I came out. So my idea is better safe then sorry, rather then looking make shifting looking a weapon during ia conflict, I had weapons that I'm totally familar with. So I am there trying to help by not as a human sacrafice to the deranged or brotherhood.

Others have discussed just calling the Cops and having them take him for study. Mom didn't want this because of his past history with the police beaten and him in the news papaer for drug selling and resisiting arrest.

All and any other input would be appreciate I'm at a lost, Mom is getting frrustrated and want him to get help he is saying he does not need it. The rest of the family is trying to talk him into rehab.

My things is I want to help but I don't want to die trying. I've seen it happen 1ks of times. I might be selfish but I rather we cry for him.




If you had called the cops he would be in trouble now. He would have been responsible for his actions and would be suffering the consequences.
As it is, he is fine with big brother coming over and whooping his tail when he gets out of control.
Violence towards loved ones only escalates unless is addressed directly.
Your mom didn't want the cops called, that's victim mentality for ya! Don't hurt my baby!! Then one day her baby puts her in the hospital, or worse.
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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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