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#417944 - 04/02/09 09:10 PM Nijushiho
student_of_life Offline
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its not supposed to make sense

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#417945 - 04/03/09 05:49 AM Re: Nijushiho [Re: student_of_life]
Shonuff Offline
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As a traditional performance I don't think it was very good, it lacked any energy or life, although it was fairly focussed (whatever that really means) and he did start and finnish on the same spot! LOL.

IMO most traditionalist shotokan performances of this kata completely miss the point of it. This one was no exception.

In addition though, in an effort to personalise the movements he actually managed to skip a number of the more subtle techniques all together.

Find someone with some idea of this forms application and you might get a better performance.
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#417946 - 04/03/09 11:01 AM Re: Nijushiho [Re: Shonuff]
student_of_life Offline
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which subtle techniques did he skip?
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#417947 - 04/03/09 02:53 PM Re: Nijushiho [Re: student_of_life]
Prizewriter Offline
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No next to nothing about Karate, but I have posted some stuff on Frank Brennan of the KUGB (which was tied to the JKA for a very long time) before. Lots of clips of him doing this kata online. If nothing else, it serves as a visual comparison. I couldn't say which is "better" due to my karate ignorance, but Mr Brennans certainly seems to have a bit more snap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rqhlBsliFo
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#417948 - 04/03/09 03:03 PM Re: Nijushiho [Re: student_of_life]
Shonuff Offline
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1. His execution of the opening move left out an important kamae
2. From the punch he skiped the climbing movement which makes the elbow effective, (he was going for the lock application which is far inferior and limits the sequence IMO).
3. He pulled arms straight back into the chamber for the u-punch instead of the circling movement
4. Glossed over the age-uke chamber after the wedge block
5. After second side kick over-hooked the hooking block which looses the sense of timing for the application.
6. Second u-punch glosses over the chamber again
7. circular block at the end of the kata he draws his hands into his harra

Some of these are simple stylistic disagreements, some are to do with a diffferent idea of application for the move. Most of it though I think just misses the point.
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#417949 - 04/03/09 04:28 PM Re: Nijushiho [Re: Shonuff]
student_of_life Offline
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thanks for the reply.

i think the differences you notice are style one's, i can assure you that sensei Minarik most definatly is not missing the point of this kata or its application. i've attended a few of his seminars over the past few years and he's always been a role model of technique for me.

not that im getting defensive over it, lol. i was just curious about what other people thought at first glance. thanks again.
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#417950 - 04/03/09 04:38 PM Re: Nijushiho [Re: Prizewriter]
student_of_life Offline
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i've watched Mr Brennans preformance on youtube alot, thanks for posting them here.

snappy movement can be a little tricky to judge, i only have limited expirence with karate as well, but one thing i've learned is that snap dosn't mean power or anything for that matter. it sure dose look nice to watch though, lol.
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#417951 - 04/03/09 05:03 PM Re: Nijushiho [Re: student_of_life]
Prizewriter Offline
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Looking good... at the end of the day, isn't that what MA are all about?
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#417952 - 04/03/09 08:16 PM Re: Nijushiho [Re: Prizewriter]
Shonuff Offline
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Registered: 11/03/04
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Loc: London, UK
Quote:

I think the differences you notice are style one's, i can assure you that sensei Minarik most definatly is not missing the point of this kata or its application. i've attended a few of his seminars over the past few years and he's always been a role model of technique for me.




His technique was good, I especially liked the slightly shorter stances. Sadly though I don't think the observations I made are purely stylistic. Nijushiho is a pretty easy kata to pull applications out of, however it is one of those forms with a very clear core principle which is obscurred by traditional performance. I've yet to meet a traditionalist who got it. Not to mention that for some of the points I made it's either there or it's not.

That said I do acknowledge that some folk change their performances for tournament. I just don't see the point myself. If your going to do a form do it properly.

Quote:


i've watched Mr Brennans preformance on youtube alot, thanks for posting them here.

snappy movement can be a little tricky to judge, i only have limited expirence with karate as well, but one thing i've learned is that snap dosn't mean power or anything for that matter. it sure dose look nice to watch though, lol.





IMO Brennan gives a better traditional performance, much more life and intent in his movements, as though he was visualising a fight where the other guy seemed to be aiming for style.

Snap doesn't necessarily mean alot but Brennans performances have much more than just snap, and I am by no means a traditionalist or a fan/follower of the JKA way of doing things.

Quote:

Looking good... at the end of the day, isn't that what MA are all about?




For the most part it's what Shotokan's about.

Student, what kind of application for this kata does the guy in question teach and how do his students practice?


Edited by Shonuff (04/03/09 08:19 PM)
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#417953 - 04/03/09 09:52 PM Re: Nijushiho [Re: Shonuff]
Victor Smith Offline
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Registered: 06/01/00
Posts: 3219
Loc: Derry, NH
hmmmmm. to be honest I can see that Mr. Brennan is a highly skilled individual, but watching his Nijushiho performance is painful as it violates all of the principles that were drilled into me for 10 years with my Shotokan instructor, and most of the modern tournament shotokan/shito ryu, etc. are the same.

In all good conscience I don't see the stop and pose method of kata practice as having meaning, it robs one of my powerful tools, the movement between techniques.

Likewise my instructo's bunkai were not derived from the kata but from different principles.

Of course if you define traditional as what Shotokan seems to have become, then it's likely a great traditional performance, but it's also possible the Shotokan I studied, which originated from the 1930's instruction of my friend/instructor's father is more classical than traditional in intent.

different strokes for different folks,
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