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#417527 - 03/23/09 12:09 AM Clavicular cavity PP takedown
karl314285 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 326
Loc: The Matrix, Serif is Teacher
Hi,

PP control fans...this may not be new...

Many good PP to be had in the bodies 'Cavities', while striking or "jabbing" these are dangerous and to be avoided (even bad to attempt practice) some can be practiced...finger strength applied w/ body weight and a goal is important for this one.

The cavity formed between the clavicle (collarbone), the large strernoclidomastoid muscle of the neck and the trapezius muscle to the rear form a smallish cavity.

using both hands (or one), make a strong hook shape with the index and middle fingers, elbows point to ground. Sink these 'hooks' just behind the clavicle and simultaneously press downward (with whole body) as though to seek the lungs (quick and powerful) and using not the arms (elbows still point to ground) but the movement of the entire body weight, drop slightly down (body stays erect) and fully back one to two large steps with the intention of the pain from the PP in the clavicles to help off balance opponent...as opponent is lowered and brought forward, throw face first to ground with your finger 'hooks' and release stepping aside so a rear attack can be initiated.

try w/ one hand and a tenkan (circular) dragging motion.

the initial sinking of the fingers is vital, fast, deep and into body, not wrapping fingers around collar bone...sinking into the rather deep seated nerve plexus with a sinking of the hara not arm strength.

in crisis driving a pen or pencil here deeply will do BAD things....but it is a crisis.

if this is old hat tell me and skip this post for a better one

-Karl. Peace.
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#417528 - 03/23/09 08:38 AM Re: Clavicular cavity PP takedown [Re: karl314285]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
I like this point. I often attack it with my chin. Works very well.

A cool variation on the technique would be to stick fingers in this point and thumb behind the shoulder tendon (GB 21) It makes for a good seizing technique. Also try this point with K27 or St 13 both below the clavical.

A good attack to the brachial plexus gives a good numbing jolt to the whole arm.
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#417529 - 03/23/09 01:58 PM Re: Clavicular cavity PP takedown [Re: underdog]
karl314285 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 326
Loc: The Matrix, Serif is Teacher
hi,

Yeah dont know point # but Master Wei Lun Huang called the two shoulder cavities you seem to be describing as "Bubbling Well" and the officers I trained w/ in unarmed PP control tactics used a "scapular slap" to these points, tho it was more a palm heel or palm corner chopping motion to stun (only a few seconds), My friend say it is not as popularly taught these days due to the precision and force needed to be effective.

I dont know how you or others are being taught to strike the brachial plexus, the LEO taught a full forearm strike to side of neck, this has been removed from GPD Instruction as a significant (10% fatality over the nation, thats not too much and usally involved an Asp or Kubotan) reports of fatality to the perp were documented over time.

Have you ever trained PP w/ Kubotan??? legal for civilian carry in open and as a typical keychain holder has many other uses? if not, basics are easy and it can be used for Locking and compliance techniques.

PS ref to the jawbreaker, ever notice where LEO place their knee on the downed perps face when attempting to achieve compliance to cuffing??? Right on the Hinge of the mandible, using the ground as pressure to the opposite hinge, this is a submission using the same opposing forces as the jaw breaker...dont lean tooo hard to start

-Karl.
_________________________
do not try to spork the post, for that is impossible, only realize there is no post to spork

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#417530 - 03/24/09 01:24 PM Re: Clavicular cavity PP takedown [Re: karl314285]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
Referring to your last paragraph, I have only seen this from a distance since I am not an LEO. Interesting. I thought the knee was in the neck with the other side of the neck sealed by the person's shoulder. I thought it was a choke! I myself use it as a choke as a control maneuver after a take-down in training. Now I think I'll take it to the mat with TW 17 instead as a control. For real use, it is better unless you really need to choke someone. It is often better to get pain compliance with the option to break something than to be trying to control with a choke. A choke is nothing unless you actually choke someone.

I use kubaton. I mix and match what I use and what I steal from for techniques. It resembles the punjo end of an escrima or knife or bo so techniques I use with those weapons, are easily adapted and often better with the kubaton. Of course I hit with it. I also have some tuite that are painfully enhanced with the kubaton digging into pressure points between bones of the wrist on the S.I. meridian and things like that. Are you aware of any books or DVD on kubaton techniques? I really like it as a weapon for women to carry. I tell women that if you can't carry a kubaton on your key ring, consider a screw driver or similar legal object.
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#417531 - 03/24/09 01:47 PM Re: Clavicular cavity PP takedown [Re: underdog]
karl314285 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 326
Loc: The Matrix, Serif is Teacher
Hi,

In general for women (no offense-they are typically not aggressive enough or trained enough for a weapon) I typically have them get two (there are now cartridge refillable types) of the OC/Mace/UV stain sprays as selfdefense, and RUN.

The kubotan, as any weapon, can be easily taken from a non aggressive, untrained person (or even aggressive and trained) and used against them. The OC/mace/UV stain as indicator spray best bet for untrained women (and men). One cannister is for practice to see the distance and spread, and a blast in the wind so they know what they have.

Just MHO -Karl. peace.
I asked bout the kubaton cause there are deep muscle protected nerves it can reach, as well as joint locking.

as to instructional vid or text??I dont know, I assume Fumio Demuria must have made one sometime and lots of MA or handgunner mags might have a video. Most of the locks are finger and wrist and so an aid in Chin Na for those easy but hard places
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#417532 - 03/24/09 02:10 PM Re: Clavicular cavity PP takedown [Re: karl314285]
harlan Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 07/31/04
Posts: 6665
Loc: Amherst, MA
No...not new. Was introduced to this technique in first year Goju, and worked it privately with a visiting Feeding Crane sifu last year. But I'm not confident that this clavicular take down would really work for a female without a lot of practice...and I'm rather too fond of my sensei to damage him. LOL!

Chin na seems interesting, but being insecure, old female...too iffy to committ a lot of training. We do touch on PP in chisikunbo, but if was going to train kubotan would prefer sharpened ballistic plastic. Hubby showed rather effective use by driving it through attacker hand, and using it as lever.

Weapons make anything better.

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#417533 - 03/25/09 10:26 AM Re: Clavicular cavity PP takedown [Re: harlan]
underdog Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1270
Loc: Mansfield, MA U.S.A.
I like my Koubaton. Since it is on the key ring, it is ideal for women as it means it will be in the hand, and not in the pocketbook when needed. When I am out on the local walking trail, I keep my cell phone, the koubaton, a 3-in. benchmade in the right pocket and a butterfly in the left. Although the butterfly knife is a very slow weapon to make ready to use, it does have the advantage of being completely ambidextrous and my benchmade is definitely right handed. Since I have one, I carry it in the left pocket. Anyway, a weapon in the pocketbook is useless. A weapon too large to carry in a woman's smaller pockets is useless. Being downwind from your attacker makes any aerosol weapon difficult. I haven't tried or carried a gas type weapon in a long time. A used to have 22 caliber tear gas "bullets" that went into a starter pistol. That too was not a good weapon to carry because of the size and slowness of getting it ready. Being downwind of that was a definite problem. It did not spray out very far. Anyway, that is kind of off topic isn't it, and would probably better go in self defense.

I like the koubaton for pressure point attacks. it gets the tendons with rubs and vibrating rubs well. It attacks deep points well like the spindle cells of large muscles and the points in between muscles. It is naughty rubbing points that get attacked into bones. It is totally awesome for wrist grab releases. Then of course it is good for such obvious vital points as the eyes or the temple.

I don't worry too much about being stripped of my weapon. If I need to show a weapon, it is because someone was going to kill me anyway.
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