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#417465 - 03/22/09 04:50 PM Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts.
SifuHax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
I'm bored. Does anyone have and killer vids on Kung Fu dominating in a real style fight? UFC vids would be the dopest.

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#417466 - 03/22/09 09:15 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: SifuHax]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
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Loc: York PA. USA
_________________________
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#417467 - 03/23/09 01:09 AM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: MattJ]
SifuHax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey

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#417468 - 03/23/09 05:13 AM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: SifuHax]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
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Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Often times when I'm fighting street thugs and I'm losing, using TKD or karate, I simply switch to kung-fu and completely destroy a whole group of people.
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The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#417469 - 03/23/09 12:42 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: BrianS]
butterfly Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 3012
Loc: Torrance, CA
Brian,

Now that's funny!

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#417470 - 03/23/09 02:02 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: SifuHax]
ShikataGaNai Offline
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Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA

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#417471 - 03/23/09 11:11 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: ShikataGaNai]
SifuHax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
There's some really good Wing Chun in this clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4N4aGMDOXQ

It is very hard to find any wushu in UFC type fights. Why is that? I feel that the art I'm studying from the way my sifus teach would completely dominate in the ring. Why isn't kung fu very prominent or popular in mma.

Here's a fun one to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSiRoUt2huA&feature=related

I think this is my favourite one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlRPDhuX1DY
_________________________
I am no sifu.

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#417472 - 03/24/09 03:32 AM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: SifuHax]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Oh, brother! This is going to be fun... and easy.

Quote:

It is very hard to find any wushu in UFC type fights. Why is that? I feel that the art I'm studying from the way my sifus teach would completely dominate in the ring. Why isn't kung fu very prominent or popular in mma.





Yes, it would completely dominate!! That's why ALL the ufc champions are well versed in wushu kung-fu. They just keep it a secret because they hold your sifu so near and dear. Wushu is their base art, but don't tell anybody.

OR!!!!

You are quite deluded if you don't believe a pure wushu stylist would be completely destroyed inside the first minute by your average mma guy.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#417473 - 03/24/09 07:28 AM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: SifuHax]
MattJ Offline
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Loc: York PA. USA
Hax -

The majority of wushu that I have seen is practiced for form, and the sparring they do is generally not MMA-style. If you haven't done MMA-type sparring, it may be difficult to understand why single styles don't work very well against MMA - but they don't.

If you watched the Jason Delucia vids, he got pwned by Royce Gracie. Twice. You have to train for all ranges!
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#417474 - 03/24/09 01:45 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: SifuHax]
ShikataGaNai Offline
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Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
Kung fu just isn't for sport fighting. It's not even very good for street fighting/SD, unless you're very good at it, which takes years - which most people don't put in.
YouTube is a hotbed of mediocrity at best, so I wouldn't go looking for too much quality there. There is some, but there's so much crap you can't be too sure what you're looking at if you're inexperienced. Plus, you have to deal with a lot of uninformed/stupid opinions that may subtly affect your judgement of a style, performance, demo or fight.
Don't worry about kung fu 'pwning it'. If the style is right for you and you get what you need from it, keep it up. If you spend your time worrying about the credibility of your school, style etc. you're probably in the wrong place.
If you need to feel tough, just go box with someone. Nothing like a few shots to the dome to get your ego in the right place
But seriously man, don't concern yourself with finding evidence that 'kung fu works' or 'rules' or 'kicks a$$'. It only does if you do.

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#417475 - 03/24/09 04:03 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: SifuHax]
Zach_Zinn Offline
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Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Quote:



It is very hard to find any wushu in UFC type fights. Why is that? I feel that the art I'm studying from the way my sifus teach would completely dominate in the ring. Why isn't kung fu very prominent or popular in mma.





It's a pretty safe assumption that to win an MMA match you need to train like the rest of the guys competing in MMA.

You see a lot of amateur MMA guys with root styles of TMA, but to compete they all seem to learn the mainstays of MMA, the boxing, MT and BJJ etc.

Would you try to enter a Judo competition after years of training in mongoloian wrestling or something and expect to do well?

To win in MMA it's pretty clear most people adopt the MMA training method.

I personally don't take this as a dig on TMA (as so many people do) as much as a validation that combat sports period have pretty specific training methods. TMA generally speaking don't have the same goals as combat sports, take that however you like...as a TMA practitioner myself I think the difference intentions are pretty clear.

Wondering why your TMA doesn't hold up in MMA competition is a silly, fruitless line of questioning, with a very simple answer. I.E. Defeating professional athletes requires training like those professional athletes.

It's better to ask exactly what you expect out of your TMA training, and honestly assess whether or not you think it is getting you there.

That way you avoid all the dumb-forum inspired questions of what/who can kick whos ass etc. etc...it's really all beside the point and has no bearing on anything but ego.


Edited by Zach_Zinn (03/24/09 04:13 PM)

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#417476 - 03/25/09 01:11 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: Zach_Zinn]
SifuHax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
what does tma stand for?
_________________________
I am no sifu.

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#417477 - 03/25/09 01:26 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: SifuHax]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Traditional Martial Arts.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#417478 - 03/26/09 08:54 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: MattJ]
SifuHax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Well, what if there is a tma that is about combat for survival? The art of knowing how most efficiently to take down an opponent. A science of death. I think I found that art.
_________________________
I am no sifu.

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#417479 - 03/26/09 10:46 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: SifuHax]
Zach_Zinn Offline
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Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Olympia, WA
Quote:

Well, what if there is a tma that is about combat for survival? The art of knowing how most efficiently to take down an opponent. A science of death. I think I found that art.




Most TMA aren't what you describe, they include plenty of nasty techniques, but the framework of arts like Karate, and the vast majority of most Chinese TMA that i'm aware of are civilian defence systems.

While you might learn some violent tactics the goal of your training is evasion and escape of violence, not focused on inflicting it per se.

It used to be claimed that Koryu Jujutsu was a TMA which was originally descended from Samurai arts, deadly and all that...leaving aside the question of modern efficacy, even the root of these systems has been called into question in recent years, it turns out some of these systems may have just been esoteric aristocrat pastimes.

As far as WC goes, it is definitely a civilian defence system, not an uber deadly military killing art ( not sure there is such a thing).

It's a great art but if someone is telling you it's primary purpose is 'killing' or something like that I find that pretty quesitonable, and i'd suggest looking at some history for context of what it actually is.

Basically what i'm telling you is that "survival" almost never means being "deadly", and i'd suggest you figure out the difference between survival and beating the crap out of someone before you ever have to actually use your art, otherwise you are in for a big surprise.

The law also does not consider "deadly" to be equal to personal survival.

Look again at the quoted portion of your statement..see the contradiction?

Survival vs. the art of knowing how to take someone down...those aren't the same.

If you wanna learn to survive you need to learn to not lose, not how to kill someone.

"combat for survival" = Knowing how to not be there in the first place, secondly knowing how to not lose, and thirdly how to get away.


Edited by Zach_Zinn (03/26/09 10:49 PM)

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#417480 - 03/27/09 01:09 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: Zach_Zinn]
ShikataGaNai Offline
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Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
SH - Please, please, PLEASE think a lot more about why you are training before you go down this path. Wanting to be deadly has nothing to do with being a martial artist. It's very easy to be a badass in the modern world - guns have seen to that. Instead of worrying about living out your own private Kill Bill movie, concentrate on challenging yourself, overcoming and finding new challenges. Spar with people for experimentation, not an opportunity to dominate. And under no circumstances use your skill to hurt someone because you want to - even if they mean you harm.
Wing Chun, alot of other kung fu's and in my opinion, MOST MA's are about learning control. If you don't have it, you can't get it. Control yourself, control the opponent, then you can control the fight.
Be humble about your developing skills and hey, try to have a little FUN for crying out loud.
Martial arts, whether TMA, MMA, JKD, WTF... just don't need any more Rambos.
Peace.

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#417481 - 04/02/09 08:04 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: ShikataGaNai]
IExcalibui2 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ9sB0pumXU

here's a guy who win's an MMA bout who trains wing chun

and heres another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVyrNR39m3E&feature=related
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

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#417482 - 05/14/09 06:15 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: BrianS]
KUNGFUNOOBIE Offline
Almost Literate!

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 12
""Often times when I'm fighting street thugs and I'm losing, using TKD or karate, I simply switch to kung-fu and completely destroy a whole group of people. ""

WHAT A IGNORANT STATEMENT. WITH FAJINGS AND DIMMAKS IT IS OPSSIBLE TO BEAT MANY PEOPLE AT A TIME ULIKE WITH OTHER FIGHTING TYPES.
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#417483 - 05/16/09 02:55 AM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: KUNGFUNOOBIE]
SifuHax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Those vids weren't bad. I wonder how his chi sao is. I need see a lot of centerness in his strikes though. especially with his opponent of the ground. A lot of WCers still raise their shoulder for close range attacks. They forget about elbow power.
_________________________
I am no sifu.

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#417484 - 05/19/09 02:21 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: SifuHax]
IExcalibui2 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
sure his WC in the ring wasn't the best, but honestly who cares all that much? Just because he trained in WC doesnt mean he has to look like he does 100% of the time. If he learned how to punch in a WC class and can use that punch (however he decides to) to make wins in the ring? Then I'm cool with that.

But he has a school to go to, do you SifuHax?
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

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#417485 - 05/20/09 10:09 AM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: KUNGFUNOOBIE]
TheCrab Offline
Scum
Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 467
Loc: QLD Australia
Quote:

""Often times when I'm fighting street thugs and I'm losing, using TKD or karate, I simply switch to kung-fu and completely destroy a whole group of people. ""

WHAT A IGNORANT STATEMENT. WITH FAJINGS AND DIMMAKS IT IS OPSSIBLE TO BEAT MANY PEOPLE AT A TIME ULIKE WITH OTHER FIGHTING TYPES.




oh yeah?
well sometimes when im fighting a whole group of street thugs with knives I just take my blindfold off and completely destroy them

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#417486 - 05/20/09 01:02 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: TheCrab]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
I just take my belt off. WHADDATAH!

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#417487 - 05/22/09 02:01 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: IExcalibui2]
SifuHax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
No, I don't attend any school.
_________________________
I am no sifu.

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#417488 - 05/22/09 04:08 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: SifuHax]
IExcalibui2 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
if you have a chance to, I'd HIGHLY recommend it. Nothing can replace having an experienced person guide you in your movements.

and if you don't have an instructor..then where are you learning your stuff from? youtube?
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

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#417489 - 05/22/09 04:58 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: IExcalibui2]
SifuHax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
I had instructors. I train what they taught everyday. And of course it's to be recommended to have an experienced person guiding and supervising. Wing Chun lessons aren't cheap nor are they close to the area I'm in. I take lessons when I can and I practice them till the next time I can go to class. It saves money and I get to really practice what's gone over in class.
_________________________
I am no sifu.

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#417490 - 05/25/09 09:34 AM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: SifuHax]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
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Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
Quote:

It saves money and I get to really practice what's gone over



1. You need to get into a place where you can study on a regular basis. There's no excuse for saying "I sucked because I thought it was better to go to training once every 5 month." If WC is too expensive, go for judo, jujutsu, boxing, whatever. When you start to limit yourself, then that is the day you've made Bruce turn in his grave.

~Donnie out
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I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#417491 - 05/26/09 04:57 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: Taison]
IExcalibui2 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
its cool that you practice at home, not everyone does that. But you also need your practice to be supervised too. Sometimes I might think that I'm doing a technique correctly only to find out that I needed it to be tweaked or changed.

and I'd have to agree with Taison a little. Practice your WC at home but if you want to be better overall as a fighter and martial artist, get yourself to a local school to supplement your home training. Pick up karate or something and practice your WC on the side.
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

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#420428 - 06/26/09 06:27 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: ShikataGaNai]
LivingR Offline
Member

Registered: 12/09/08
Posts: 25

ShikataGaNai is right. Kung Fu was developed long before MMA existed. The reasons for it's birth came at a time when the world was a different place.

MMA has become a quick and easy way to make a quick buck displaying the "glamor" of fighting, while skimming off the philosophy and honor that came with its origins.

Jumping in a cage and brawling someone isn't true Martial Arts in my book.

Don't get me wrong, it takes quite a bit of dedication and effort to make a career out of it. But in my opinion, it lacks what make The Arts so amazing to other people that don't do it for an MMA career.

I give credits to anyone involved in any Art, even MMA.

But, I'm not always on board with how it is displayed.

I feel that watching MMA gives kids a someone tainted view of what Martial Arts really is.

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#420438 - 06/27/09 01:08 AM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: LivingR]
ShikataGaNai Offline
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Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
What? Dude, I didn't say any of that. I like MMA. And I don't really care that much about kids...

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#420560 - 07/01/09 09:35 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: ShikataGaNai]
IExcalibui2 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
LOL, guess your message wasnt clear enough
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

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#420595 - 07/03/09 09:46 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: IExcalibui2]
SifuHax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
What is the etiquette when going into a new school? Is it cool to ask for demonstrations and even a light spar? Taking Buddha Hand Wing Chun as my main art, what would be a good other art? Muay Thai seems like a cool art to study. I saw some Kenpo schools around. What is the most bang for my buck?
_________________________
I am no sifu.

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#420596 - 07/04/09 12:01 AM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: SifuHax]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
I personally love Muay Thai and think it flows with, and fills in some gaps in Wing Chun (unless of course I was a master with mad skills, which there are very few of).
But don't go in asking for anything. Train what they show you. If you get some free sparring time, work some of your WC in to see what happens. The results are usually mixed, and should be. A student may ask you where you pulled that crazy technique from after a good spar, then you can talk about what you do. But for the most part - empty cup. JMO.

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#420607 - 07/04/09 02:20 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: ShikataGaNai]
IExcalibui2 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
just go in and watch, see what they do, how their train. But like Shikata said, don't really ask of anything.

but if you're talking about taking up another MA, first you have to ask the might Google what schools are around you first. Can't take up Muay Thai when the nearest school is 2 hours away. Search first then we could probably give you some better recommendations
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

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#420609 - 07/04/09 02:41 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: IExcalibui2]
donchisau Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 73

Always be polite and observe. Some schools are run by people like me. I offer anyone and everyone a chance to touch hands or spar if they want. We also have open mat saturday. Anyone can come in and spar/ train if they agree to the rules and don't seem crazy. Working out or friendly sparring is not a fight to the death and you don't try to hurt anyone.

Some schools wont touch hands with a stranger at all.

You must also keep in mind that your asking about sparring may be taken as a type of challenge. There are those that will seek to dominate any type of " friendly challenge' . Leung Ting schools for example are taught the following. Some one wants to roll,or do some chi sau etc. Most schools will roll a few times and then do some soft or light attacks to test things out slowly. Leung Ting folks will touch your hands and then immediately attack hard trying to dominate and intimidate.

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#420638 - 07/06/09 06:14 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: donchisau]
SifuHax Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Don Chi Sau, I haven't seen you post anything in a while.

Thanks folks for the advice.
_________________________
I am no sifu.

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#421437 - 08/10/09 04:36 AM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: SifuHax]
JimmySmith Offline
Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 73
Loc: Australia
Good post Don, I'd add that it doesn't hurt to ask some questions if you're not seeing what you're looking for-

I've sat in on classes before where unfortunately the regular class doesn't practice anything close to resembling what the "black belts" are practicing (which is realistically where you want to go isn't it?)- I asked the trainer if they did any open hand techniques and got a really good response, had a spar and got a much better appreciation for their style than had I sat back. (Incidently they sucked so didn't go back, but finding out they suck up front saves a lot of money down the track)

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#422573 - 09/28/09 07:05 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: IExcalibui2]
BigWiggly Offline
Member

Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 50
Loc: Ohio
Something Im having a hard time understanding... What is wrong with learning pure styles? I understand using styles that work to your advantages, but why an entire new catagory for mma? Most of it looks like standard american wrestling with a few kicks. I personaly am in love with the pure shaolin styles Im learning, and quickly becomming less and less impressed with most forms of karate and newer ma's. Anyone else agree? or am I just crazy?

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#422581 - 09/29/09 01:23 AM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: BigWiggly]
IExcalibui2 Offline
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I'm not sure I ever really expressed negative views on learning 1 martial art....

and what is a "pure" style?
_________________________
"you're going to work till you wish you were dead and then keep going.." -Sgt Slaughter

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#422596 - 09/29/09 06:44 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: IExcalibui2]
Neko456 Offline
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Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Not to mention Chung Lee/Sanshou defeating MMA legend Frank Shamrock. I don't know why Frank decided to stand up with him but I bet he knows better now. I still say style has nothing to do with it effective techniques, its how hard to train.

Sorry I don't have the Youtube video but its out there.
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#422597 - 09/29/09 07:20 PM Re: Kung Fu destroying in MMA bouts. [Re: Neko456]
IExcalibui2 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 961
Loc: New York City
My prediction of Shamrock winning 2nd round via submission flew out the window when he announced that he was going to try and stand with Cung....he could've won the fight if he grappled more but oh well. Stupid decisions will result in broken arms

yea i can care less about WHAT techniques you train, so long as you are training in the right way
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