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#417250 - 03/18/09 07:22 PM Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids
ushirotanabe Offline
Stranger

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 2
I am sick of threads about Bruce Lee and the elementary, uneducated debates on whether he used such drugs. So I am going to offer the only explanation to a debate that has no real answer, as it is impossible to ask him. Did Bruce Lee use steroids? Probably.

Here is why: First off, I am both an experienced martial artist and experienced steroid user. So for all the people who just rant and throw useless information regarding subjects they have zero experience with, shut up and pay attention.

Given the time period, Bruce was most likely exposed to such compounds as testosterone, deca, dianabol and a number of diuretics. People think that injecting test will make you huge. Bullsh*t. If you don't eat an enormous amount of food you're not going to get much bigger at all. It's quite possible to attain a physique like his using testosterone and having an extremely strict diet, supplemented with diuretic pills. These pills, which were available then, take water out of your body and give you a more "ripped" appearance. And considering testosterone, deca, dbol, the most popular steroids of that time were not illegal, there is no reason why he wouldn't have at least tried some.

"oohh but he was so dedicated and blah blah he would never compromise his integrity asdf" Shut up. Because he was so dedicated is probably the primary reason why he would use such compounds, because elite athletes will try almost anything to get an edge.

He was in show business. Actors today use steroids. They use their body to make money. Yes there is some acting and entertainment qualities needed, but if they were ugly and out of shape they wouldn't be able to get certain roles. And lets face it: Actors do not have years to prepare physically for a role when they can achieve the same results in 4 months with some special help.

"Bruce was skinny, he did not have a physique similar to those with steroid use." You don't get it. If his diet and cardio was as extreme as it is documented, 1: he probably needed testosterone to recover and train so often, 2: he wouldn't have had to worry about getting too bulky because of his calories. He could have shot test like mad and still stayed thin.

Bruce was cocky and arrogant. Anything that could have made him better than someone else would have been beneficial to him, ergo it would make logical sense to have at least tried steroids.

Dan Inosanto once said Bruce got up to about 160lbs, then lost the weight he had gained because he lost speed. I doubt it. I haven't lost any speed whatsoever and have put on more than 25lbs of pure muscle from steroids. He could have done a cycle and put on some muscle, then realizing how difficult it is to maintain that and keep up his martial training, he lost weight. Let me tell you, it would be extremely difficult to train in a martial art, especially as he did, while also having a heavy weight lifting routine. Your body would simply be too sore to keep up with that kind of routine. So, possibly he tried, because we all know he wanted to be bigger and was jealous of those with more muscular physiques, but found the rigors too demanding, as I have, as anyone would. Bodybuilding routines and extreme martial training do not mix well, which is why some of todays fighters have good physiques, but are hardly comparable to a bodybuilder. So it would make more sense to tone down his weight routine, lift lighter weights so he could recover faster and still be able to do the cardio and martial training he desired. Just a thought.

I am not saying he did or did not, as I can not know that answer. What I am saying is, rationally, it makes logical sense he would have at least tried some, and frankly seems quite naive to think otherwise.

Think what you want, but it's simple probability. The evidence to support rational and logical thought is overwhelming.

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#417251 - 03/18/09 08:12 PM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: ushirotanabe]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
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Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
_________________________
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#417252 - 03/18/09 08:38 PM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: MattJ]
ushirotanabe Offline
Stranger

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 2
Quote:

The evidence is apparently not there in the post-mortem tox-screen, though.




True, which means nothing. Not all screens reveal compounds such as dbol, or others, which is out of the system in a couple weeks max. As for elevated levels of testosterone, considering test wasn't an illegal drug, why would they do a specific screen searching for it? Answer: They wouldn't and didn't. And I'm not saying he was a long time user, other than he probably used at one point. That's all.

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#417253 - 03/18/09 08:42 PM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: ushirotanabe]
karl314285 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 326
Loc: The Matrix, Serif is Teacher
Hi,

I might have missed it but where did the Bruce Lee steroid 'connection' come from, the 'big boss'?

Mans dead, his sons dead, his wife would be hurt. I've lost a friend to substance unknown, to me it did not detract from the good he did in the world and the much smaller world of Martial Arts, I only felt that the kids he taught (and quite well at that) would be hurt by such dirt digging.

Perhaps so, perhaps no. As so many things in all the forums, what is fact today is speculative in the future as accepted paradigms change; and, some things as 'internal energy', or did a dead man take steroids 45yrs ago, are opinion only.

***BUT, to play devils advocate, if Bruce did take steroids to achieve his physique...
1.)Why does the physique of the late Brandon Lee so remarkably resemble his fathers (There is a vid clip on oldmans boobishi blog w/ a young Brandon facing David Carradine and I'd swear that could be Bruce Lee), could son have trained AND dosed like father??? Hard to imagine...

2.) Pics of Bruce Lee w/ Yip Man are of a youth, 10 more years and by the nature of aging it is not unlikely more muscle mass has been developed.

if this is just related to his truncated life, preexisting medical conditions were much more likely to be missed back then, as even now Medicine is still just part Scientific rigor and part Art, with Diagnostics heavy on the Art.

RIP father and son, the world was made better however the cause of the end.

Just my humble opinion-Official Devils Advocate-Karl esq.
_________________________
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#417254 - 03/19/09 06:46 AM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: ushirotanabe]
TheCrab Offline
Scum
Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 467
Loc: QLD Australia
random guy who starts gay bruce lee thread on first post, nice to meet you.

Heres my perspective.

Bruce lee was a skinny motherf**er that didnt have the greatest or even a great physique by my standards, and he didnt take steroids because a) he was a skinny mother***er B) theres no evidence that he did
I have friends into sprinting that have comparable physiques and they dont take roids.


MOO

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#417255 - 03/19/09 07:13 AM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: ushirotanabe]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
Quote:

True, which means nothing. Not all screens reveal compounds such as dbol, or others, which is out of the system in a couple weeks max. As for elevated levels of testosterone, considering test wasn't an illegal drug, why would they do a specific screen searching for it? Answer: They wouldn't and didn't. And I'm not saying he was a long time user, other than he probably used at one point. That's all.




Fair point.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#417256 - 03/19/09 01:45 PM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: MattJ]
ShikataGaNai Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Bellingham, WA
There's lots of other elements that could have contributed to Bruce's physical appearance in his movies and books: lighting, body oil, camera angle, standing next to guys like Bolo Yeung... know what I mean?

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#417257 - 03/24/09 01:49 PM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: ushirotanabe]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
For those interested, Linda Lee's ex-husband, Tom Bleecker, published a book which made this claim (Unsettled Matter: The Life and Death of Bruce Lee). Apparently he had access to Bruce Lee's files when he and Linda were together. So far, to my knowledge, he hasn't been sued, which might mean that there is some truth to his claims (considering the Bruce Lee Foundation's history of going to court over misuse of Bruce's image or whatever).

For more on this you can read an interview with Tom Bleecker

here:

http://www.bruceleedivinewind.com/tombleecker.html

--Chris


Edited by Ames (03/24/09 01:50 PM)
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#417258 - 05/14/09 06:07 PM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: Ames]
KUNGFUNOOBIE Offline
Almost Literate!

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 12
WORRY ABOUT YOURSELF NOT WHAT BRUCE DIS IT YOUR PRSONAL DEVELOPMENT COME FIRST,. U SPEND TOO MUCH TIME WORRYING ABOUT WHATHER A DEAD GUY TOOK DRUGS~~
_________________________
MOST RETARDED~~ HANDS IN FIGHTINGARTS.COM

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#417259 - 05/14/09 09:49 PM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: KUNGFUNOOBIE]
Taison Offline
The Forum Dragon
Professional Poster

Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 3629
Loc: BKK, Thailand
And you kungfuslaya, need to learn not to WRITE EVERYTHING IN CAPITAL LETTERS.

PERHAPS YOU SHOULD LEARN TO WRITE PROPER ENGLISH BEFORE POSTING? IT'S A DAMN EYESORE WHEN PEOPLE DO THIS.

~DONNIE OUT!!!!!!!
_________________________
I got two fists.. Don't make me use my head as well!

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#417260 - 05/15/09 10:23 AM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: Taison]
Zombie Zero Offline
Compliance & Liability
Veteran

Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 1992
Loc: Lorton, VA
Yes, this isn't AOL circa 1996, so please don't type in ALL CAPS.

Crab, you must be absolutely shredded if you can say this guy didn't have a great physique:

_________________________
In my walk in the martial way, my hope is that as long as I live, I will always be a beginner.

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#417261 - 05/15/09 02:45 PM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: Zombie Zero]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
He had a good physique, but there are thousands out there with similar,or even better, physiques that have achieved them without stimulants or steroids.

1 such guy is a mamber here - Grumbleweed. 3 years ago, he was 5 stone heavier and a couch potatoe. He is now absolutely shredded, and I would put him up to the pepsi challenge of that photo any day. All done on Iron willpower, good genetics, and superb training advice (ahem)

I doubt he would put photos up anyway, so instead, I challenge you to watch the next 3 ESPN fight nights, and not come back with at least 3 journeyman boxers who display superior physiques.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#417262 - 05/15/09 03:01 PM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: Cord]
Zombie Zero Offline
Compliance & Liability
Veteran

Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 1992
Loc: Lorton, VA
Fair point, Cord, but boxers generally train for strength over fitness. I'm only comparing him to the average butter tub I see walking about on a daily basis.

Also, looking back on my previous comment... Crab, I hope that didn't come off as a slight against you, just saying I think the dude was in fantastic shape.
_________________________
In my walk in the martial way, my hope is that as long as I live, I will always be a beginner.

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#417263 - 05/15/09 03:18 PM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: Zombie Zero]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

Fair point, Cord, but boxers generally train for strength over fitness.




I guarantee you that in a parallel universe, where Bruce Lee could hook up with Pacquiao, or Calzaghe, or Morales, or any top flight boxer, his stamina would not allow him to keep up with their training sessions.

When it comes to fitness (defined as a balance of physical attributes that go to make up complete overall physical ability), boxers are the fittest athletes on the planet, bar none.

Quote:

I'm only comparing him to the average butter tub I see walking about on a daily basis.




Well, thats not much of a benchmark to excell against is it?

Bruce Lee was a chronicaly overtrained, very lean, quite short, 155lb man. His physical development is attainable, and has been equalled by hundreds of thousands of gym users, gymnasts, and athletes the world over, without the use of performance enhancers.

Not saying he wasnt in good shape, just that he really wasn't 'all that'
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Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#417264 - 05/15/09 03:33 PM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: Cord]
Zombie Zero Offline
Compliance & Liability
Veteran

Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 1992
Loc: Lorton, VA
Don't worry, I'm not in the "ZOMG Bruce Lee was teh bset EVAR!!!1!" camp. I agree, if compared to some of today's athletes, he wouldn't come out on top. I'm just saying that compared to someone of average fitness (me) he certainly had a great physique.

Also, I believe I misspoke inre: Boxers. Yes, they definitely are fit. 12 rounds * 3:00 is very stamina demanding. Yep, there are a lot of athletes today that are in better shape than BL was. I'm not denying that. My only point was that - in my opinion - BL was in great shape.
_________________________
In my walk in the martial way, my hope is that as long as I live, I will always be a beginner.

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#417265 - 05/15/09 04:05 PM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: Zombie Zero]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
and I agree. He was a lean, fit fella, but there was no indication of physique, or abilities that would require anabolic agents to achieve.
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#417266 - 05/15/09 04:18 PM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: Cord]
Zombie Zero Offline
Compliance & Liability
Veteran

Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 1992
Loc: Lorton, VA
I also have serious doubts that he ever took 'roids.
_________________________
In my walk in the martial way, my hope is that as long as I live, I will always be a beginner.

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#417267 - 05/15/09 07:24 PM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: Cord]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I want to be compared to bit fat butter tubs!!

_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#417268 - 05/17/09 03:58 AM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: BrianS]
Cord Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 11399
Loc: Cambridge UK.
Quote:

I want to be compared to bit fat butter tubs!!






OK.

'Hey Brian, you look like a big fat butter tub!'

Happy now?
_________________________
Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'
http://cord.mybrute.com

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#417269 - 05/17/09 11:01 PM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: KUNGFUNOOBIE]
formless Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 72
Quote:

WORRY ABOUT YOURSELF NOT WHAT BRUCE DIS IT YOUR PRSONAL DEVELOPMENT COME FIRST,. U SPEND TOO MUCH TIME WORRYING ABOUT WHATHER A DEAD GUY TOOK DRUGS~~




The method that was used to present this opinion should not detract from the excellent point made.
_________________________
Serve no master.

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#417270 - 05/18/09 05:30 AM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: Cord]
BrianS Offline
Higher rank than you
Professional Poster

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 5959
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Quote:

Quote:

I want to be compared to bit fat butter tubs!!






OK.

'Hey Brian, you look like a big fat butter tub!'

Happy now?




Well, that's not exactly what I had in mind.
_________________________
The2nd ammendment, it makes all the others possible. <///<




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#417271 - 05/19/09 09:52 PM Re: Bruce Lee Probably Took Steroids [Re: Taison]
TheCrab Offline
Scum
Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 467
Loc: QLD Australia
I just played the wolverine game. I have officially decided the perfect physique is the one logan has in that game.

including the claws. those are cool

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