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#417189 - 03/16/09 04:56 PM Need some of your expert advice please
Kahless Offline

Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 21
...and that wasn't sarcasm. I know enough to know that a lot of gyms/dojos are just gimmicks, and they they do not give very much benefit. I also know enough to know that there are gys/dojos that offer REAL training, in an effective art form.

I need to know which this place is. I am thinking about joining it. The guy said though that they work on ground work one week, throws and locks another, then strikes the next, and alternate that way. Does that seem like a good way to train? I apologize for my ignorance on this topic, but I know with weight training, doing squats one week, deadlifts the next, and then bench press would get you NOWHERE.

Also, how about the styles. They use a lot of crazy looking words, but is it legit, or is it just based on some fu-man-chu guy who spent his life sitting atop a mountain trying to move hot dogs with his mind? I am VERY interested in judo and ju-jitsu and this is close by, I would just like to know your opinions because after reading a LOT of posts here, I trust this place as a very good and balanced source of information.

And again, I hope that I do not come across as cynical, arrogant, or condescending, I have a HUGe amount of respect for martial artists and their arts.....when it is the real deal. So to end this rant, please help me gauge the 'mc-dojoness' of this place please.

thanks in advance

#417190 - 03/16/09 05:27 PM Re: Need some of your expert advice please [Re: Kahless]
Kahless Offline

Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 21
Here is what they are calling it:

" Instructors Glen Pitcher, Karen Partington and Norm Jolin teach a complete martial arts system including hand and foot strikes, blocks, throws, chokes, joint locks, nerve techniques, and weapons training. Chokushin is the intergration of Daito-Ryu Aiki-jutsu, Kito-ryu Jujutsu and Tenshin Shinyo-Ryu Jujutsu. Musubi Dojo operates in the Oshawa area (Ontario, Canada). "

#417191 - 03/17/09 12:13 PM Re: Need some of your expert advice please [Re: Kahless]
NewJitsu Offline

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Midlands, UK
the only way to properly guage it would be to make a visit or two and trust your instincts. the idea of a "complete martial arts system" just focusing on one aspect per week seems a bit strange but hey, it's their dojo. as for all the lineage stuff, some are into that. What are you in it for? I found it interesting at first in my JJ class then came to realise we spent more time listening to tales of feudal Japan than actually practicing the techniques!

If you're seeking a MA for self defence, then your instructors' experience is more worthy than their lineage. Have they worked the doors, security etc? It's like my MMA instructor actively competes but my brother's instructor has never done a competition in his life. I know who I'd rather follow.

An art is only as good as the person teaching it, so you could either rely on the (in)accuracies of Google or meet these instructors yourself.
- Andy Trying to balance JJJ and MMA. And failing.

#417192 - 03/17/09 02:23 PM Re: Need some of your expert advice please [Re: Kahless]
karl314285 Offline

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 326
Loc: The Matrix, Serif is Teacher

Lots of people train and not yet ready to 'hang a shingle' or in this case start or represent a "new style" where their main founder (if even one exists) has proven experience.

1.) The point of visiting and watching is good, see if they will let you (gratis) attend 1 -2 of each of the separate weeks (that would be a good sign, show respect and help clean dojo after workout, after class banter and attitude can reveal a lot) and as was just mentioned...if you like it and it feels right go for it. Avoid long term contracts unless there is a clause deferring time out for injury

2.) As with most things Martial, tho the practice of X/Y/Z are separated, after or before class there will probably be someone of higher rank around to practice what was last weeks stuff. The onus of learning is on you anyway.

ex #1- There was a point in Aikido where Oshima Sensei was to leave for Japan for a while, and he taught the last 3mos before in such a fashion-"sets of 5" he called it, 1 to 2 classes were say 5 different uke attacks, and, as nage, use only ,say nikyo (irimi and tenkan, really 10). Tween all the locks and throws available (irimi and tenkan to gorund to pin)in 3mos it was rare we revisited a particular principle-it was ask high rank and take ukemi to get chance to be nage for a while. It works but takes longer to advance... which is a good thing

ex #2: The GPD officers kinda get the shaft from all ends (Not paid enough, no gratis ammo for range time and some other things) while I noticed GPD SWAT had it much better in some respects (free ammo for range time, pay still not commensurate, Training...Ahhh), these were the weekend sessions I was lucky enough to be invited to attend (Those I legally could, was bummed when denied night training rappelling down gainesville mall or an area HS), the Training was as you point out "piecemeal", but when I asked I was told that the part I did not see were open times at the police academy here where it was "lets refresh this"

Breaking up ground/throw/lock is slower to develop spinal reflexes but they do develop.

3.) Is there a code of ethics, is there a curriculum plan or at least acknowledged set of skills to be mastered prior to "advancement" and a minimum time before such if testing even occurs, The MMA guys renting space in my old dojo just practiced and learned-no worry rank-prove by doing (a belt is just one more thing I can use against you) (tho makes a nifty quick short chain whip, the belt for pants that is)

Luck finding what you want, if it feels wrong it probably is. ( If you cant do something smart, do something right ???)

Karl. Peace.
do not try to spork the post, for that is impossible, only realize there is no post to spork

#417193 - 03/21/09 11:18 PM Re: Need some of your expert advice please [Re: karl314285]
Kahless Offline

Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 21
So is this place more about ju-jitsu, or aikido?

It says CHOKUSHIN, which apparently is the integration of Daito-Ryu Aiki-jutsu, Kito-ryu Jujutsu, and Tenshin Shinyo-Ryu Jujutsu. So this should be more of a jujitsu style right? I would rather do jujtsu than aikido. I mean no offense to any practitioners of aikido, but in my experience with it, it does not seem like something I would want to study on it's own. Perhaps as a complement to another art.

Also, I talked to the sensei, and he confirmed that they do one week on throws, the next on ground work, the next on striking, and then put it all together in week 4. Does this seem like a good idea to you guys? It seems to me that what is essentially practicing each component one week a month wouldn't be that beneficial.

#417194 - 03/22/09 06:59 AM Re: Need some of your expert advice please [Re: Kahless]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2577

Posted in your other thread too. Please read.

Is this the place?:


It sort of confirms what I thought: they are basically a bunch of people who seemed to have studied Judo and Aikido (plus it seems Ninjutsu???) and are trying to pass it off as a traditional Japanese system.

Problem I have with this is that they have made up a style based on their own experience (nothing wrong with that necessarily) but are very clearly trying to pass it off as "An Ancient Japanese system". As ancient as a Japanese system by some Aikido-ka, judo-ka & ninjas from 21st century Canada can be....

It would be good if someone from the orginization could come on here and clarify what it is they do and what it is they learnt. I mean that in a non-pugnacious, cordial way. It is only to help a forum member understand what he is going to be learning.

As I said in the other thread Kahless, if you like what they teach, like the people, and it seems like a good place to learn, then go for it.

It you are set on learning a traditional, genuine Japanese MA, then this might not be the place for you.
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

#417195 - 04/07/09 04:48 PM Re: Need some of your expert advice please [Re: Prizewriter]
Kahless Offline

Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 21
Thanks a lot again for the helpful replies, and sorry about the delayed response. Due to an injury, I had to put off checking this place out. But I am am feeling good and I think I am going tomorrow. I'll let you know what I think.

And no, that isn't the place, it is this one:

I talked to the instructor, and he seemed like a very level headed, down to earth guy. He also didn't seem to get ackward when I questioned him about his style like other instructor's have in the past (Shaolin-Do Kempo Karate???)

He also talked about his experiences in law enforcement, and the practicality of his teaching, which is what I am going for. Whether I compete or not, it is really being able to better defend myself, and loved ones that I care most about.

Anyway, thanks again, and I'll let you guys know how it goes.

#417196 - 04/07/09 04:49 PM Re: Need some of your expert advice please [Re: Kahless]
Kahless Offline

Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 21
Oops, just saw the musubidojo link you posted now, so sorry, yes that is the place.

#417197 - 04/07/09 05:04 PM Re: Need some of your expert advice please [Re: Kahless]
Kahless Offline

Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 21
Here is a PDF file that describes the techniques for beginners in the Chokushin Ju-Jutsu system. Does this stuff all seem pretty similar to regular jujitsu?

#417198 - 04/07/09 05:10 PM Re: Need some of your expert advice please [Re: Kahless]
Prizewriter Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 2577
Fair enough, if you are happy there go for it. The stuff on the website re DR is BS though. Notice the way they talk at length about DR Aiki Jutsu, but only mention that they teach Aiki Jutsu. Funny the way they dropped the DR part.

It would lead someone to believe they are learning DR Aiki Jutsu, whereas in fact they are learning no such thing. Again, I don't know why someone would put this on a website, as the whole thing is pretty dubious. It hurts more than it helps IMO.

Once again, there is no evidence they have studied any classical DR, Kito Ryu or Shindo Tenshin Ryu in any shape or form. If you play Ice Hockey, you don't go round telling people you play rugby. If I study Aikido, I don't tell people I have studied DR. If I study Judo, that doesn't mean I have studied Kito Ryu or Tenshin Ryu directly, as the site infers.

The thing is the teachers are probably good at what they do, and you clearly like the club so you should defintely try it out. I just don't get why there is all the pseudo-samauri nonsense on the website. As I said, it hurts more than it helps.
"Let your food be your medicine, and your medicine be your food" Hippocrates.

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