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#416975 - 03/12/09 07:55 PM eye damaging
lucifervalentine Offline
Stranger

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 4
I have looked around and found the eye is one thing people hate to have hit and that any damage to it causes huge amounts of panic. So anyways who has seen or had to injure or take out an eye on an attacker?

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#416976 - 03/12/09 10:22 PM Re: eye damaging [Re: lucifervalentine]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
No. I think it's not as big a deal as many would imagine.

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#416977 - 03/13/09 04:47 AM Re: eye damaging [Re: JKogas]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
Quote:

No. I think it's not as big a deal as many would imagine.




G'day John,

I remember having quite a debate about this with you a year or so back. this was your stance then and mine hasn't changed either. So I hope you forgive me when I say BULLS**T!.!!!....

Anyone who believes they will not react to an eye attack are so far removed from reality that they had to create a new dimension for them called "Ego Land". Of course some may genuinely believe this and not out of a misplaced sense of super humanism that plague the vast majority of the residents of Ego Land, these people live in a little city north west of ego land called "Naive Ville". Often the residents of Naive Ville will discover the land of reality, occasionally a Ego Land'er will discover this land too. but sadly many never do and some that do always consider themselves natives of Ego Land on a vacation to reality.

Any way I'm not going to get into this debate again. but I would like to say this: the eye is directly linked to (and some consider it a part of) the central nervous system. It is a vital organ for our survival and we have natural innate defence mechanisms protecting it. you WILL react to an Eye attack, if you don't then you are dead or paralyzed either way you are in no condition to be a threat to anything.

Sure someone can recover from an eye attack and come back at you even more ticked off. but who in your right mind is going to let their attacker recover from any attack. before either escaping or finishing them off (the first option being the preferred in my book).

so to all those who are going to argue against the effectiveness of the eye attack, I hope you enjoy ego land, if you do make it to the land of reality look me up, I'm a long time resident.
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

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#416978 - 03/13/09 06:42 AM Re: eye damaging [Re: drgndrew]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
drgndrew wrote:
Quote:


G'day John,

I remember having quite a debate about this with you a year or so back. this was your stance then and mine hasn't changed either. So I hope you forgive me when I say BULLS**T!.!!!....





You're forgiven.


Quote:


Anyone who believes they will not react to an eye attack are so far removed from reality that they had to create a new dimension for them called "Ego Land".





So you think that I just pulled this out of thin air? Did you ever stop to think that it could it be possible that I have a reason for my opinion?

But in terms of who is more removed from reality...lets allow the readers to make that decision, shall we?


Quote:


Of course some may genuinely believe this and not out of a misplaced sense of super humanism that plague the vast majority of the residents of Ego Land, these people live in a little city north west of ego land called "Naive Ville".

Often the residents of Naive Ville will discover the land of reality, occasionally a Ego Land'er will discover this land too. but sadly many never do and some that do always consider themselves natives of Ego Land on a vacation to reality.





To attack someone because of their opinion only shows how insecure you are with your own beliefs. I'd do some serious soul searching if I were you.


Quote:


Any way I'm not going to get into this debate again.





Of course you aren't.


Quote:


but I would like to say this: the eye is directly linked to (and some consider it a part of) the central nervous system. It is a vital organ for our survival and we have natural innate defence mechanisms protecting it. you WILL react to an Eye attack, if you don't then you are dead or paralyzed either way you are in no condition to be a threat to anything.






Go back, re-read my post again. What did I say? It should be easy to grasp because it was a very short, one-sentence statement. Think about it carefully.


Quote:


Sure someone can recover from an eye attack and come back at you even more ticked off. but who in your right mind is going to let their attacker recover from any attack. before either escaping or finishing them off (the first option being the preferred in my book).





Two things here you may want to understand. No you didn't ask me to clarify, because you're too busy being a pinhead as usual. But here goes anyway..

1. Before the adrenaline dump occurs, eye attacks may have some positive effect.

2. After the adrenaline dump, don't waste your time.

There...that's my entire point of view summed up in two more, easy to digest, sentences.


Quote:

so to all those who are going to argue against the effectiveness of the eye attack, I hope you enjoy ego land, if you do make it to the land of reality look me up, I'm a long time resident.





Can I ask you a serious question here without you flaming me (again)? How does a legitimate opinion based on EXPERIENCE have anything to do with ego?

And I'll ask that question over and over until it's answered. I just want the viewing public here to see your response.


-John

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#416979 - 03/13/09 08:01 AM Re: eye damaging [Re: JKogas]
drgndrew Offline
< a god, > a man.
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/09/05
Posts: 599
Loc: Toowoomba, Qld, Australia
John Like i said I'm not going to get in with this with you.

I do, however, apologize to you if my post came across disrespectful or flaming, I was intending it to be a little tongue in cheek in a manner to emphasis the absurdity that someone can ignore an attack, as if it did not happen.
I was not aiming the post at you (other then the first bit) and I definately did not intend to accuse you of being Mayor of Ego Land.

I would like you to clarify one a couple of things though.

you said
Quote:


Two things here you may want to understand. No you didn't ask me to clarify, because you're too busy being a pinhead as usual. But here goes anyway..

1. Before the adrenaline dump occurs, eye attacks may have some positive effect.

2. After the adrenaline dump, don't waste your time.

There...that's my entire point of view summed up in two more, easy to digest, sentences.





could you explain this for me.

see the eyes are not subject to the anesthetic effect of the fight or flight response to the same degree as the rest of the body. It is also not effected by adrenaline it is other hormones and chemicals that trigger the Fight and flight changes of the visual system. this is primarily focusing of images that fall closer to the centre of the eye, where the cones are concentrated (cones are responsible for acuity and colour vision, rods are primarily responsible for movement and monochromatic vision). The reason for this is so that as an organism we can see the danger more accurately and are less prone to distraction (this is tunnel vision)

the cortisols and noradranine are the main hormones that produce the numbing anesthetic effect of Fight or flight (there are 100s of chemicals released during FoF). They also do not operate on the same area of the brain and CNA that the visual system does. there would be a slight deadening of the pain associated with an eye trauma, but it is not the same degree as the muscles and skin.

also the fight and flight response does not effect the defence mechanisms of the eye system, they operate on different systems. it is not the pain response that causes the reaction it is the protective response that is activated. this is why the eyes are one of the few areas that are not reduced to painlessness in states of extreme drug use etc.

These are scientific facts, as referenced in many physiological and psychological texts. So I was just wondering. How exactly do those two sentences sum up your argument.


Quote:


Can I ask you a serious question here without you flaming me (again)? What does a legitimate opinion based on EXPERIENCE have anything to do with ego?

And I'll ask that question over and over until it's answered. I just want the viewing public here to see your response.




i mentioned before I did not intend to flame you, and I apologise again for the misunderstanding based on how I posted .

May I ask you what your experience in eye attacks actually is.

I could accuse you of inferring that I don't have any experience of my own, and my post is based on some sort of internet warrior attitude. I can assure you my posts and opinion on the eye are very much based on reality and experience. I can have a doctors certificate highlighting the extend of eye trauma I had previously received. I have a damaged pupuliary sphincter muscle, iris and retina cells, among others. These are permanently damaged and can not be faked, they are a result of a impact trauma of the eye. so I do have REAL actual experience of what it's like to suffer from an eye trauma and I remember it very clearly.

I am in My final year of a Psychology degree which covers, among many other things, the physiological and psychological effects/affects of emotional responses including the fear response know as acute stress response or Fight or flight. it also includes the perception processes of the sensory system including the structure and functioning of the eye the visual pathways and the occipital lobe.

this is only My formal studies and does not include the 20 odd years of casual research into the physical and psychological aspects of violence and all things related. in fact this interest is why i went back to university in my 30's to under take my degree.

I do not want to imply or suggest that my experience and research is superior to that of anyone else. indeed our combines experience and learning will always produce a superior quantity of knowledge beyond any single one of us.

John, I would like to hear you responses to:
-"May I ask you what your experience in eye attacks actually is".
&
-"How exactly do those two sentences sum up your argument."

I will leave it for you to have the last word My friend, I am not interested in internet squabbles I am far more interested in offering my advice and learning from the advise of others, but I am open minded so look forward to you proving me wrong.
_________________________
Sumo Pacis (Choose Peace)

With Honour in Bushido
Drew Guest
www.ToowoombaSelfDefence.websyte.com.au
Bushi Dojos Self Protection
Toowoomba Self Defence

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#416980 - 03/13/09 08:51 AM Re: eye damaging [Re: drgndrew]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:

John Like i said I'm not going to get in with this with you.





There is NO reason why we can't have a civil discussion on this topic.

No apology is necessary. I'll come back later when I have some time to address your questions to me.

Thanks!


-John

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#416981 - 03/13/09 10:47 AM Re: eye damaging [Re: JKogas]
MattJ Offline
Free Rhinoplasty!
Prolific

Registered: 11/25/04
Posts: 15634
Loc: York PA. USA
My 2% dollar on eye strikes:

Pro - Potentially incapacitating. A good one can stop an opponent cold.

Con - Small, moving target. Can be very difficult to hit clean.

I have hit and been hit in the eyes many times over the years. Sometimes it stopped me or the opponent INSTANTLY and TOTALLY. Other times it did nearly nothing.

VERDICT - A strike like most others. Not to be ignored, but not to be relied on any more than anything else.
_________________________
"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

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#416982 - 03/13/09 12:34 PM Re: eye damaging [Re: MattJ]
Ames Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/29/05
Posts: 1117
Quote:

VERDICT - A strike like most others. Not to be ignored, but not to be relied on any more than anything else.




This sums up my feelings on eye strikes. If you get them bang on, they will cause a big effect, but doing so is pretty difficult. For me at least, I find it easier to hit someone on the button, simply because it is a more availible target.

--Chris
_________________________
"Seek not to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought."
--Basho

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#416983 - 03/13/09 12:56 PM Re: eye damaging [Re: Ames]
duanew Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 326
Loc: MN
Take a look at some of the UFC guys who have been hit in the eyes. I don't remember the fighter (Matt Hughes?)but he literally turned around and fell to the ground after catching a finger in the eye. His opponent was forced to hit with an open hand because of an injury to the fist and it definitley stopped the fight for a while. On the street that reaction could have spelled victory.

Duane

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#416984 - 03/13/09 03:39 PM Re: eye damaging [Re: duanew]
JKogas Offline
Prolific

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 10818
Loc: North Carolina
duanew

Two words: Yuki Nakai

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