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#416916 - 03/12/09 01:20 AM Guard dogs
lucifervalentine Offline
Stranger

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 4
I bet this one has been asked but i want to know,who here owns a dog that is bred or trained for guarding and companionship only? like pit bulls.

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#416917 - 03/12/09 01:53 AM Re: Guard dogs [Re: lucifervalentine]
karl314285 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 326
Loc: The Matrix, Serif is Teacher
hi,
did a stint as a guard dog agitator. 2wks
Choose a more intelligent(no offense, perhaps obedient is better). GPD here is switching from G. Shepards to a different breed (name I cannot recall). Better companions as guard dog (less chance of instinctual disobedience). Maybe someone can name the breed i'm mentioning. Believe was cross of Shep and Lab, or some exotic pure breed frome europe (Pricy, but so is a good rifle , mines named Verra)

Pit Bulls are great companions, but the guard dog training turns on aggressive instincts that may be out of control at times. Had a deep south girlfriend whos Pit would play eye to eye tug-o-war on a rope w/ me, scared everyone but her and me, never once had the eye contact aggression of a Rottie.

If you Hunt, This newer import breed good for that too, but has longish dark hair reminiscent of Lab...good choice for all 3.

Economy tough...theres a reason ads for "guard Dog Agitator" wanted pop up so much

-karl
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#416918 - 03/12/09 03:09 PM Re: Guard dogs [Re: lucifervalentine]
karl314285 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 326
Loc: The Matrix, Serif is Teacher
Hi, Karl again

I asked a friend who should know:)

it's The Dutch Shepard.

other than needing to be trained, also very obedient to commands and has the plus of much less incidence of Hip Dysplasia than G. Shepards. The Pit B. has this genetic predisposition too, maybe a tich greater than G.Shepard. Very painful for dog, hip replacement only cure.

hope this helped
-Karl. Peace.
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#416919 - 03/12/09 05:54 PM Re: Guard dogs [Re: karl314285]
gojuwarrior1 Offline
tougher than you

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 1178
Loc: East Coast, USA
I own a red doberman pinscher. I'm biased but this dog was breed specifically for protection. its the number 5 smartest dog in the world. Gsd's are good police dogs but they are bred for herding sheep and pit bulls were bred for the ring...the only dog made for guarding...the dobie!!
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#416920 - 04/18/09 11:42 AM Re: Guard dogs [Re: lucifervalentine]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Quote:

I bet this one has been asked but i want to know,who here owns a dog that is bred or trained for guarding and companionship only? like pit bulls.




karate314285, We have more in common then justbthe Martial arts. I've had some agitator, handler experience and I use to work as a dog trainer. Most LE departments are turning to the Malinois and Dutch Sherepards some good GSDs and Rotties are still used nowdays and alot Labs for drug search or search and rescue though a smart & powerful dogs Labs were not breed to guard/herd they are retreivers water dogs for hunting.

OP I also own three Protection trained dogs, 2 GSDs and Rottie intelligent wise going by this well respected breeding manual the above dogs rank in the top 10 this includes the Dobbie. The GSD being #3 and the Rottie #9. The AM Pit Bull ranks in the mind 20s it is a soild and tenaious dog but too stuborn & animal aggresive for Personal protection/Guard or Enforcement work its said.
I haven't been around many good Dobies but I hear they are still good ones out there and the Malinois are a little too small & high sprung for me but good fearless animals. I like the GSD because of its size, heart and smarts/problem deduction abilities, I like the Rottie for it heart, power, smarts, strength and fearless-ness and pain resistance. Similar to the Sheapard looking Malinois but the Rottie got the muscle to back it up. The Pit Bull,GSD and Rottie have gotten bad raps bc of poor handling/training and breeding. Most time my GSD will stay in a down unless they see me being flanked and they know I don't see the suspect. Several times camping I've been approached unaware unloading my vehicle listen to music and the GSD have made the decision to break the dwon and ward off the threat. If approached by a child size person they may bark but they don't break the down or appraoch the person, the child can touch me from the back if I don't swing aroun on the dogs bark. The point I'm making is that they cn determine a ligitmate threat. Another thing about the GSD is that he can be trained easily. I've read in training manuals of Setters that watch their owner get rapped or trained Am Bulldogs outside the patio door raising hell but unable to get inside. Most Rotties or above mentioned guard/herding dogs aren't going to let their owner get rapped, attacked or even shouted at and Soken Bushi Matsummura my #1 GSD can open a patio door if it was unlocked. I demo'd to my wife several times he'd jump up using his weight sideways pawing until the door opened enough he could get in.

I pitty the fool that think he could approach my house hold to harm them. These animals I'd trust with my life of course there is some responsible handling involved to protect society and your dogs from curious animal lovers.
I got numerous incidents of each matters.

OP a pit bull can be a trained as PP dog it won't be easy because they can be stuborn but raised right they would make a good companion and I bet they won't let your girl get rapped, but I know my GSDs or Rottie wouldn't.


Edited by Neko456 (04/18/09 12:05 PM)
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#416921 - 04/18/09 12:17 PM Re: Guard dogs [Re: Neko456]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Alot Labs for drug search or search and rescue though a smart & powerful dogs Labs were not breed to guard/herd they are retreivers water dogs for hunting.

The GSD, Malinois, Rottie, Dobbie can be multi purpose dogs ulike the Lab who can but they really don't have the heart to really hurt people & soft mouth as a breed traitt but are strudy and roughed dog.


Edited by Neko456 (04/18/09 12:18 PM)
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#416922 - 04/28/09 03:48 PM Re: Guard dogs [Re: Neko456]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
Neko, I am sorry here but is a GSD a German Shepard?

I don't have much to add but I have a siberian husky, which can't guard chit. lol He more of my bud then anything, and my blue pit bull, which I am hoping to train to gaurd the house. The muscle in her is scary strong...
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#416923 - 04/28/09 06:41 PM Re: Guard dogs [Re: JasonM]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Yes when I use GSD I'm refering to the German Shepherd Dog.

Good luck with your Husky and Pit Bull both are good dogs for what they are meant to do. I have seen a few sharp Pits do Protection work. I seen more American bull Dogs then Pits in PP both are tough and muscular dogs.


Edited by Neko456 (04/28/09 06:42 PM)
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#416924 - 04/29/09 05:13 PM Re: Guard dogs [Re: Neko456]
duanew Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/08
Posts: 326
Loc: MN
My latest house insurance paperwork came the other day indicated that doberman, rottweiler or pit bull would dramatically increase my premiums. Had a beautiful black shepard for 13 years. When I left the house he wouldn't leave my wifes side. Intelligent, protective and scary as all heck to people he didn't know. An over grown puppy with my wife and I. I love and miss that dog.
We have a pound puppy- lab/golden retriever mix. A good protector but not as scary.
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#416925 - 04/29/09 08:35 PM Re: Guard dogs [Re: duanew]
gojuwarrior1 Offline
tougher than you

Registered: 12/24/02
Posts: 1178
Loc: East Coast, USA
Yeah my premiums went up since they found out i had a dobie, i think they should reduce it because they are perfect house alarm systems, lol.
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#416926 - 04/30/09 09:18 AM Re: Guard dogs [Re: gojuwarrior1]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
no way! I didn't know your premiums would go up....I guess hush is my mouth...:) But I would be curious what they say. I have USAA and they are really good.
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#416927 - 04/30/09 12:22 PM Re: Guard dogs [Re: JasonM]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Yes the top 3 dogs on the most likely to attack/harm or kill humans are the Pit bull types, Rotties, and Doberman or mixes and will increase your insurance. In the area I live the Am Pit bull are illegal but many still own them and don't keep them on a lease. The GSD are number 10 on the list behind the huge 180-200lb Pecar Canarys anyway poor handling and breeding is most the cause for this. Letting a dog dominate the house sleep in your bed uninvited, take food from you or growl at you because you ask him to move or obey are signs of unwarranted aggression.

A dog being scray is a sign of poor breeding, upbring, abuse or enviroment most times. Having a scray GSD is like having a Lab that can't swim or don't like water. My GSD was so fearless as a 9 month old puppy (but 70lbs) entered the basketball court to take the ball from a field of 10 men, it was my fault for not watching him, by the way he got the ball. They thank me for giving it back and was impressed with Mat not angry at all. In another incident a helper that like the heavier Rotties and Am bull dogs mixes, was trying to make a point to the other owners that most GSDs aren't fit anymore for Protection work. After doing some shelve work with us. Minutes later he tried to sneak up on me and scare the now 14 month old Mat. This guy sprung from behind this car screaming reaching toward me Mat was sitting near my foot. Mat's response was to jump and snap at his neck barely missing him as he scrambled away. The helper comment was dude you got you a good GSD there. Thus his full name seems appropiate "Soken Bushi Matsummura" Mat for short but if I was mad at him SBM and he obey quicker. Breeding, training and letting a dog be a dog then a family member is key.
I worked as Security at the Custom Tresury dept. One of the Agents brought up his Rhodesian ridgeback these dogs hunt Lions its said and the owner stated the dog was very protective of his family and home. He asked us to come rub him with a smug smile on his face, expecting aggression from th e dog. 4 men approached and the dog hide behind him looking through his legs almost tripping him. Some harah him that he was scray as his owner, he couldn't under stand this. I later explained that it was possible that he was territoral and that on unfamilar ground and people through him off. I brought Mat up the next week, he was sitting in my Jeep about 30 yards away. The guys wanted to see my GSD some had read that GSDs had lost it and most were nervous scraed of there shadow. I asked them to position themselves around me as if they were going to attack me. It was about six of them, I yelled for help " Mat I need help"!! Like some super hero or Rin Tin Tin Mat jumped through the Jeeps window ran up and herded these guys in a corner barking and rasiing all hell. These tough guys eyes were as big as saucers saying "Get that crazy MF before he hurts some one" crowding each other shoulder to shoulder scraed as hell. I called Mat to a sat at my side and asked if anybody wanted to pat him. They all said no, on command I told Mat to go get back into the Jeep. He took off like a Missle Jump through the window and stuck his head out the window to make sure I was Ok. I questioned them just like his owner hey?, they told me FY man he's a monster, nice animal. Man I love that dog, as proud as watching my son run his 1st touchdown. Numerous incidents.

There are GSD that are make shift poddles and then you got GSDs that are real GSDs. Mat is for real, but a little too long to be comformation or a show dog he is not, still pretty if you like GSDs.

PS. I told the same story on the Leeburg site they brought up a good point someone could have gotten hurt at the CT dept. But they didn't and those are the games that men play. I brought up my 3 month Rottie pup and they said I guess you gonna make her a Monster too. I said "Yep they only act that way on command or they preceive a threat training is key".


Edited by Neko456 (04/30/09 12:46 PM)

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#416928 - 04/30/09 03:22 PM Re: Guard dogs [Re: Neko456]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
You train your own dogs?
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#416929 - 05/01/09 11:42 AM Re: Guard dogs [Re: JasonM]
Neko456 Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 3260
Loc: Midwest City, Ok, USA
Yes I train them in basic obediance, build there prey drive and confidence level by socailizing them. Teaching them to get use to different type people/smells, climb stairs, jump fences, climb ladders on command, resist others feeding them, jump through windows, open doors, cut on/off lights, find objects & people in the home or woods, get use to shouting and gun fire. So I do training them basic ob, a little S&R, Blgd Search and change in enviroment and terain drills.

At a certain point you can't train defense aggression drills by yourself or the dog will be chewing on you. So I have help, we have a group of guys that have specailties in different areas of dog training we exchange info and donate our bodies in training, really fun stuff.

So really I knew what Mat was going to do at the CT dept, having trained in such events in drills. He just did it so well but just like us training is everything. Its easier when you have a dog bred for that sorta of thing. Not that I haven't seen some Mutts mixed with right bred do well, my Rottie is half Pit Bull though she looks Rottie, is a mean tough B. Loves kids but she is a dog fighter and animal killer. Mat doesn't seem to care much for dog fighting, he like his owner a lover not a fighter. Mat is the Alpha dog behind the humans in our pack. Unless a dog trying to get to me then he Mans up and its like What's up? You ain't tryng get to my dad are ya! He does'nt say that but he does get between me and them and will push them away or get aggressive if they try something.

Mulan the Rottie mix loves non crying giggly kids rolls over and wants her tummy rubbedbut dislike animals she doesn't live with. Mat doesn't trust kids will let them pat him but strugs them off and gets away if they get kissy huggy.


Edited by Neko456 (05/01/09 11:54 AM)
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#416930 - 05/01/09 02:08 PM Re: Guard dogs [Re: Neko456]
JasonM Offline
Professional Poster

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 2502
wow..that does sound like fun stuff..I would love to learn or find somewhere to train mine like that...

And it is so cool how they have such distinct personalities.
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